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The Overwatch Problem

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18 Jan 2019, 13:44 PM
#181
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2019, 13:30 PMLago


If you think Sector Assault is substantially more powerful than a normal loiter, then we agree.

If you think Sector Assault is about the same as a normal loiter, then we disagree.

If you're hypocritically quibbling over tangents, then you're wasting everyone's time.

I have repeatedly posted that SA is problematic and even provided feedback before it was released pointing out the issue.
Now pls stop trying to prove me biased.

You have claimed that normal loiter can "soft up" infantry that claim is simply wrong, IL-2 loiter will decimate any infantry it targets and Stuka loiter will do the same to vehicles.

Just because 1 ability is OP one does not have to claim other abilities as UP.
18 Jan 2019, 13:53 PM
#182
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

When did I say the standard loiters were underpowered? They're incredibly powerful.

We seem to have different intepretations of 'soften up'.
18 Jan 2019, 13:59 PM
#183
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

soften up in British
verb (adverb)
1.
[...]
2. (transitive)
to weaken (an enemy's defences) by shelling, bombing, etc
18 Jan 2019, 14:05 PM
#184
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2019, 13:53 PMLago
When did I say the standard loiters were underpowered? They're incredibly powerful.

We seem to have different intepretations of 'soften up'.

This is what you wrote:

"you can expect your tanks to take a load of damage and your infantry squads to get suppressed and generally softened up."

If by that "suppressed and generally softened up." you mean decimated we agree but your wording is very poor, else the claim is false.

Now pls move on.
18 Jan 2019, 16:02 PM
#185
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

i am sry for my video editing skills. just played this game and wanted to show what i think sec assault is best for.



the assault starts around 2:20
If you want to see the whole replay, i uploaded it.
Those emplacements where able to cover both VPs and to shoot into our base. Einhoven county
18 Jan 2019, 16:41 PM
#186
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Advice. Just don't use a Stuka to attack emplacements, if you haven't forced a brace before.
18 Jan 2019, 16:54 PM
#187
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

i know. i didnt want to kill it with the stuka, i wanted to stop it from barraging our base. he was killing out forward emplacements and i had to play for time in order to get the sec assault
18 Jan 2019, 21:54 PM
#188
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Why not make sector assault target a
enemy controlled sector instead of an area? Would make it a bit more manageable but could still be strong due to restrictions.
19 Jan 2019, 02:00 AM
#189
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053


The short answer: No, garands are a close range weapon.

The longer answer: (Individually) Kars heavily eclipse garands at long range. Garands pull slightly ahead at close range. This is because (to my understanding) kars and the other bolt actions have a wind down time of 1.3 seconds that the garand doesnt have, meaning the garand has does have a higher rate of fire and pulls ahead in DPS even though it does half of the damage per shot. Garands ARE a close range weapon (relative to other rifles due to *cough* relative positioning). Of course theyre not true close range weapons like smgs are though.

So in terms of pure profile, theyre a mid range weapon. In terms of performance relative to what theyre likely to be facing, theyre a close range weapon - the closer the better against kars.

Ah good to know. Nice knowing that I haven't been in the wrong mindset with riflemen this entire time lol.
19 Jan 2019, 14:21 PM
#190
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1



No, the plane will not drop bombs if there is no target for it to track. It will just loiter until the ability is over. It will not drop bombs randomly and it will not track units that are (visible) in the base sector.


I am more than positive i have seen bombs get dropped randomly well outside where that radius was.

This might be pre-hotfix, but don't tell me this never happened because I've literally seen it. And I don't need you to explain anything about how tracking works, I said that already...

Edit: The ability used to have a scatter of 80. So shells were absolutely capable of landing in the middle of nowhere, even if I never had units there. They might of been caused by tracking, but they're was still intense randomness going on
19 Jan 2019, 17:11 PM
#192
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

What you are saying is impossible. The plane literally can not drop the bombs without a target. It will never randomly drop bombs if it doesn't have a target. Go test it.

If it did drop bombs somewhere, that means it had a target that it was tracking.
19 Jan 2019, 19:09 PM
#193
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

actually replacing sector assault with standard zeroing arty is more balanced and logical than the current model we have now...
20 Jan 2019, 01:19 AM
#194
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

What you are saying is impossible. The plane literally can not drop the bombs without a target. It will never randomly drop bombs if it doesn't have a target. Go test it.

If it did drop bombs somewhere, that means it had a target that it was tracking.

Sky's is saying the bombs have a scatter of 80so yes it might need a unit to trigger the bomb drop but a scatter that large is a massive dice roll. I mean, the old is-2 used to miss so bad it would hit things on the western front when it would miss and I'm certain it's scatter wasn't 80. And the current b4 is Also VERY likely to not actually land in its own targeting circle and again, doesn't have a scatter of 80. That's a VERY large spectrum for it to maybe land in...
20 Jan 2019, 20:04 PM
#195
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

What you are saying is impossible.


Read my last post again and check the patchnotes. With a scatter of 80, which it very recently had, it was absolutely possible for shells to land in the middle of nowhere, FAR from the originally tracked unit.

It appeared random to me, that's what I was referring too. So climb down from the high horse please

Thank you @thedarkarmadillo
20 Jan 2019, 20:24 PM
#196
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

So i guess we all agree that there is no overwatch problem? Fine. Lets conclude the thread then^^
20 Jan 2019, 21:26 PM
#197
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Read my last post again and check the patchnotes. With a scatter of 80, which it very recently had, it was absolutely possible for shells to land in the middle of nowhere, FAR from the originally tracked unit.


I'm replying to your original claim that 'the plane can wipe entire armies in base because of the huge radius' which isn't true because it won't track units in base sectors no matter how big the radius is. Then you proceeded to claim the ability 'seems to drop a whole bunch of random shells all over the place at the end' which isn't true either since it won't drop ordnance without having a target.

Now suddenly you claim it was before the patch and because of the 80 scatter the ability had. Indeed back then no one on the entire map was safe and the bombs could drop well outside the radius because of the tracking combined with the scatter. But that doesn't happen anymore.
21 Jan 2019, 06:47 AM
#198
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1



I'm replying to your original claim that 'the plane can wipe entire armies in base because of the huge radius' which isn't true because it won't track units in base sectors no matter how big the radius is. Then you proceeded to claim the ability 'seems to drop a whole bunch of random shells all over the place at the end' which isn't true either since it won't drop ordnance without having a target.

Now suddenly you claim it was before the patch and because of the 80 scatter the ability had. Indeed back then no one on the entire map was safe and the bombs could drop well outside the radius because of the tracking combined with the scatter. But that doesn't happen anymore.


What do you mean suddenly? Try reading that post again jerk, you just completely mischaracterized it:



I've seen this thing wipe squads in people's base sectors because the actual radius is freaking huge


"I've" is a past tense. I'm sorry that my game experience from before a VERY recent patch got mixed up with the current. Would appreciate you being less of a dick about it. It's a very specific bit of knowledge, it's not like I screwed up the basics of the entire game. I missed one line in the patchnotes....

Oh and what exactly is the purpose of ignoring all the other posts in the conversation and just focusing on the original comment? Throughout the conversation I was trying to figure out what I saw with the ability, and your suggestion about tracking was not it. I was looking for why I had seen the shells falling wildly, which I eventually found out was cause of 80 scatter. I hadn't seen the ability recently

What's the part about that evolution that you need to be attacking me for? I'm hardly making a substantial claim about much at all
21 Jan 2019, 08:06 AM
#199
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

I'm tired of people misrepresenting units and abilities in an effort to make them sound worse than they really are. I have no idea why you would bring up a point about a previous iteration of the ability in a discussion about the effectiveness of the current iteration. Check your arguments before posting them.
21 Jan 2019, 08:13 AM
#200
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1



What do you mean suddenly? Try reading that post again jerk, you just completely mischaracterized it:



"I've" is a past tense. I'm sorry that my game experience from before a VERY recent patch got mixed up with the current. Would appreciate you being less of a dick about it. It's a very specific bit of knowledge, it's not like I screwed up the basics of the entire game. I missed one line in the patchnotes....

Oh and what exactly is the purpose of ignoring all the other posts in the conversation and just focusing on the original comment? Throughout the conversation I was trying to figure out what I saw with the ability, and your suggestion about tracking was not it. I was looking for why I had seen the shells falling wildly, which I eventually found out was cause of 80 scatter. I hadn't seen the ability recently

What's the part about that evolution that you need to be attacking me for? I'm hardly making a substantial claim about much at all


Don't worry it happened to me yesterday, half of my army taken down on my sector base because one unit was on the edge, get targeted and bombs dropped on my base.

That's so funny, pop a JLI from a random house inside your opponent territory and call a sector assault, your opponent has to move his entire army everywhere else out of range and keep them moving to avoid being bombed which is almost impossible if you also manage to assault with your troops.
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