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russian armor

So, how about bring back Riflemen Smoke?

25 Oct 2018, 11:46 AM
#21
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Rear Echelon smoke was a good idea. The problem is the upgrade's still priced like the much more powerful Rifleman smoke, so nobody ever unlocks it.

150 MP 15 FU like Weapon Racks is the highest I think it can go right now. It might even get away with being 100 MP 10 FU like the UKF grenades.
25 Oct 2018, 11:46 AM
#22
avatar of Loren

Posts: 107

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2018, 11:35 AMVipper

I am simply demonstrating the silliness of "no manpower only" claim.

The thing is quite simply either riflemen have smoke and not mortar or riflemen have no smoke and a mortar. Else they simply have an overwhelming advantage over Ostheer since they can completely shut down their HMG. This has been tried and it has been proven.

On the other hand smoke from all mortars should be delivered allot faster.


Obviously manpower is needed to upgrade grenades. And the smoke rifle grenade obviously has to pay a small fee of 15muni to use, with a large cost of 150 manpower and 25 fuels to upgrade. This significantly slows down the USF's tier upgrade, which is why USF is not upgrading the grenade pack at this time. (It's not worthy upgrade to early game at all.)

And, riflemen smoke can not neutralize the mg42 as a magic instant. Even if riflemen uses smoke as soon as mg42 appears in sight, riflemen in smoke still spends a long time pin down. If a simple 1 squad is headed for you, you can simply disable the smoke by releasing mg42 and re setup it to the rear. I do not even know what proved to be 'completely shut down their HMG'.
25 Oct 2018, 11:59 AM
#23
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3475 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2018, 11:41 AMVipper

Pioneers with Flamers shut down USF infantry play? seriously? Pioneer are probably the weakest flamer units.

Can we pls stop with irrelevant issues and especially since you are not interested in restoring smoke to riflemen before we derail this thread?


Lol, your logic is flawed and I'm the one irrelevant because I pointed it out.
25 Oct 2018, 13:41 PM
#24
avatar of konfucius

Posts: 129

Rifle smoke was only a soft counter to mg spam but just becomes cheesy quick.

I think riflemen deserve a manpower discount for losing their smoke though, or give the current upgrade free.
25 Oct 2018, 13:50 PM
#25
avatar of Vertigo

Posts: 64

you already have mortars with Smoke.,
25 Oct 2018, 15:06 PM
#26
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
It would force Ostheer to actually micro their MG's and use their brains so not an option, sorry


Playercard? The reason smoke was removed was specifically for the opposite reason: so USF actually needs to think before moving out making sure to spread out when they don't know where the mgs are so that you don't get blob suppressed. When USF had smoke, they didn't have to think. They can simply throw smoke at any position no matter how carefully prepared by Ost. Secondly, USF has a mortar now. USF players can't beg for everything.
25 Oct 2018, 15:07 PM
#27
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
I think grenade tech can be a bit cheaper though I'm against rifle smoke
25 Oct 2018, 15:21 PM
#28
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Make grenade unlock cheaper. We don't need 1 dimensional Rifleman armies again.

Wouldn't mind smoke barrage been buffed across the board.
25 Oct 2018, 15:48 PM
#29
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3047

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2018, 11:46 AMLago
Rear Echelon smoke was a good idea. The problem is the upgrade's still priced like the much more powerful Rifleman smoke, so nobody ever unlocks it.

150 MP 15 FU like Weapon Racks is the highest I think it can go right now. It might even get away with being 100 MP 10 FU like the UKF grenades.

+1
25 Oct 2018, 15:49 PM
#30
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 805

remove motor (didn't need it in the first place) and give USF riflemen ther smoke nades back
25 Oct 2018, 15:53 PM
#31
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2018, 15:49 PMAlphrum
remove motor (didn't need it in the first place) and give USF riflemen ther smoke nades back


Remove the mortar and USF has no garrison counter until Captain or Major.
25 Oct 2018, 15:56 PM
#32
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3047

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2018, 15:53 PMLago


Remove the mortar and USF has no garrison counter until Captain or Major.

This is somewhat tangential but I’d really prefer removing the usf mortar and giving them a sniper instead. Fits the theme of mobility much better and would do more to support riflemen. This is assuming riflemen + sniper isn’t blatantly op especially against ostheer.

That or just give them a nondoc flamethrower or like a flamenade on REs. I honestly don’t think that a t0 mortar fits the faction very well at all because it encourages static play on the usf side which isn’t what the faction is designed for at all.
25 Oct 2018, 16:15 PM
#33
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
I dont whanna again one unit spam, maybe prolbem are with cost for nades, but smoke for officers and RE looks fine.
25 Oct 2018, 16:55 PM
#34
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

I don't think Rifle Smoke is ever coming back, reducing the cost of the grenade unlock is the way to go, it's fun and thematic that Officers have the Smoke, not sure why REs have it... Why not reduce the cost to be equal to the UKF grenades and only make it so officers get Smoke?
25 Oct 2018, 17:24 PM
#35
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1



Playercard? The reason smoke was removed was specifically for the opposite reason: so USF actually needs to think before moving out making sure to spread out when they don't know where the mgs are so that you don't get blob suppressed. When USF had smoke, they didn't have to think. They can simply throw smoke at any position no matter how carefully prepared by Ost. Secondly, USF has a mortar now. USF players can't beg for everything.


If I remember correctly there was a complaint by some of the pro players about smoke on every rifle so it was changed. Yeah I remember the days where a big old rifle blob would smoke everything then steam roll you that was pretty bad and unfun imo.


Exacly I like current state its good change that rifleman have only granades and officers and re smokes but this side tech its too much ambu and granades upgrade cost u so much that i only bulid ambu and rush for jackson. Anyway granade upgrade should cost 10 or 15 fuel.


Ya Every squad with a smoke grenade ontop of a mortar smoke is a bit overkill. And it use to be very op and I doubt it should be reimplmented. The biggest issue is solely that the greande tech didn't get a price change so it reflect its actual strength and remains at the old tech cost when it benefited rifles with smokes.
25 Oct 2018, 17:31 PM
#36
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 416 | Subs: 1

I like grenades the way they are now.

Grenade Tech could be cheaper, though.
25 Oct 2018, 19:37 PM
#37
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2018, 11:22 AMVipper

Ostheer mortar is not a "no manpower only" counter garrison since it requires fuel, same goes for OKW grenades.

Where do you come up with these weird claims, do you actually want to make a point or you just arguing for arguing?

For all intents and purposes the 80mp and 10fu t1 is free. It's basically there to eat up time and be cheap as all hell to back tech to and can be bought from the word go. It's mp cost isn't even prohibitive. Consider that even the Soviet t1 costs double the MP but the same fuel. It's the manpower that's the bigger investment due to reduced map control than a momentary delay in fuel.
25 Oct 2018, 21:14 PM
#38
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2206 | Subs: 1

good thing OP and all other guys in this thread took so actively part in the patch Preview when the Rifleman/echelon Smoke was tested out for months.

I'm sure you all uploaded dozens of replays and feedback so playercardless balance whining afterwards is completelys justified
26 Oct 2018, 18:39 PM
#39
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

I always felt the officers should just plain have smoke, no upgrades needed.

But I also have always felt the nade upgrade for USF should unlock the pineapple and the AT nade normally unlocked at vet1.

Smoke could be vet 1, or heaven forbid, a some kind of combat bonus so vet 2 and 3 aren't such heavy increments.

I'm so silly.
26 Oct 2018, 18:42 PM
#40
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

good thing OP and all other guys in this thread took so actively part in the patch Preview when the Rifleman/echelon Smoke was tested out for months.

I'm sure you all uploaded dozens of replays and feedback so playercardless balance whining afterwards is completelys justified


I think by the time smoke was changed players were more or less over fooling themselves that their replays and feedback were being taken seriously. Specific people were taken seriously, yes, but regardless of any replays posted or analyzed.
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