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6 Sep 2018, 11:31 AM
#461
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Sep 2018, 09:59 AMVipper

It is a doctrinal AT vs light tanks. I suggest you calculate its chance to penetrate a Ostheer PzIV and check its penetration compared to of the 75mm PzIV has.

Then keep in mind that it cost 200 manpower.

Which performs worse then non doctrinal one against these lights, because burst is all that matters if you want to kill armor, unless you get two, in which case you are massively taxed in pop cap and upkeep for inferior unit.

You don't need to be terrified of M-42 so much, no one will be ever getting it unless it'll be able to contest a P4 and to justify popcap and inferiority of a pair of them to single ZiS, it needs to go up against P4.

M-42 even with current buffs is not even worth being a panic button over penal PTRS.
6 Sep 2018, 11:38 AM
#462
avatar of kitekaze

Posts: 378

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Sep 2018, 11:24 AMKirrik
Here is another solution for M42 - bundle it along with something else. Like PTRS Conscript squad callin or DShK.
Or you can give it Soviet version of Withdraw and Refit where you can simply sell this thing off after it's done it's job or replace it with ZiS after paying addinional MP


I like the idea of bundling it with PTRS Conscript, although that won't make M42 case any better.
M42 should have the ability like "Snipe Unit" and "Break tread" like CoH1's AT Halftrack. That will immediately give it a place in this game.

In addition to your idea of new Soviet ability, the Soviet still have the ability "Soviet War Machine" in Campaign map 3 that has not been used in MP.
6 Sep 2018, 11:44 AM
#463
avatar of Olekman
Modmaker Badge

Posts: 208

Speaking of Soviet War Machine, perhaps Allied War Machine could make a comeback in Mechanized Company, though it would be best if it replaced only one vehicle. Easier to balance, I think.
6 Sep 2018, 11:45 AM
#464
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


Which performs worse then non doctrinal one against these lights, because burst is all that matters if you want to kill armor, unless you get two, in which case you are massively taxed in pop cap and upkeep for inferior unit.

You don't need to be terrified of M-42 so much, no one will be ever getting it unless it'll be able to contest a P4 and to justify popcap and inferiority of a pair of them to single ZiS, it needs to go up against P4.

M-42 even with current buffs is not even worth being a panic button over penal PTRS.

And that is why it needs other stats to be buffed and not penetration. User Kirrik asked for a buff in penetration so it can counter mediums and offer nothing vs lights, you seem to agree that it should better vs light and not mediums. So the buff it needs have to do with reaction time, rotation, arc...and not penetration.

Pls try to follow the debate before jumping in.

I would also urge people to test the unit it much better than people think and dirty cheap.
6 Sep 2018, 11:50 AM
#465
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

What other stats? Rate of fire?
There is no other stat, its either pen or RoF and it already shoots pretty fast.
There isn't much to do here, unless you want to give it AI ability instead of pen boost.

We don't need another PTRS.
6 Sep 2018, 11:52 AM
#466
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573



I like the idea of bundling it with PTRS Conscript, although that won't make M42 case any better.
M42 should have the ability like "Snipe Unit" and "Break tread" like CoH1's AT Halftrack. That will immediately give it a place in this game.

In addition to your idea of new Soviet ability, the Soviet still have the ability "Soviet War Machine" in Campaign map 3 that has not been used in MP.


The thing is - you cant make M42 case any better anyway. This thing made sense when PTRS upgrade for Penals didnt exist, now it's completely pointless even VS light vehicles since it's always to better to get either ZiS from T2 or PTRS upgrade from T1.
Bundling something like PTRS Conscripts with it will at least allow you to get something out of bad deal which M42 is.
6 Sep 2018, 11:59 AM
#467
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

What other stats? Rate of fire?
There is no other stat, its either pen or RoF and it already shoots pretty fast.
There isn't much to do here, unless you want to give it AI ability instead of pen boost.

We don't need another PTRS.

I have made suggestion again again pls lets not flood this thread, just go some pages and read them before asking.

Actually if you check the UKF atg you will get the picture (High accuracy, fast rotation,...one could add low wind up/wind down, high tracking...).

If you actually want to debate the M-42 in the patch test the unit and start a thread about it.
6 Sep 2018, 15:52 PM
#468
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Sep 2018, 01:05 AMVipper

Then simply test the unit before you complain that it is penetrate by "anything above mauser"...


I don't remember any patch note where it got it's armor buffed, which means Paks, Raketens and the like will still penetrate it almost all the time, Sherman armor can only bounce up to PZ4 rounds.
6 Sep 2018, 15:56 PM
#469
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



I don't remember any patch note where it got it's armor buffed, which means Paks, Raketens and the like will still penetrate it almost all the time, Sherman armor can only bounce up to PZ4 rounds.

As far as remember the PzIV does not have a "Mauser" but a 75mm gun.
6 Sep 2018, 16:47 PM
#470
avatar of MrBananaGrabber.
Patrion 26

Posts: 328

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Sep 2018, 06:25 AMkanon

It could be a good idea removing that little at gun (there is really no point getting that thing, unless you are doing very very bad and you need a fast AT out to counter 222s or flame HT xD).
I'd suggest to replace that with a kv2 or a is2, i would say kv2 since there is only 1 commander with it.


Swapping the M42 with a KV2 sounds good. The KV2 fits the commander, using it to hold an area and protect a medic bunker/FHQ.
Or at the very least swapping the incendiary call-in with the KV2.
6 Sep 2018, 16:58 PM
#471
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Sep 2018, 15:56 PMVipper

As far as remember the PzIV does not have a "Mauser" but a 75mm gun.


I guess a bit of humour, unless it's exaggerating how "strong" Brits or USF are, isn't your forte.
My point there was that the Bulldozer Sherman is still weak durability wise, because most German AT options have a very easy time penetrating it, specially ATGs unlike the StuPa that can wipe them frontally unless they are the almight 6 man ATGs from the Soviets. Getting a DR buff at Vet2 won't do much, unless you level up a crew and swap them, so it has it the moment it hits the field.
6 Sep 2018, 17:07 PM
#472
avatar of MrBananaGrabber.
Patrion 26

Posts: 328

Can you please give the NVKD commander the KV1 instead of the KV2? It would make it viable for 1vs1s, and mean another really solid commander has been added to the game via the patch.

6 Sep 2018, 17:17 PM
#473
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



I guess a bit of humour, unless it's exaggerating how "strong" Brits or USF are, isn't your forte.
My point there was that the Bulldozer Sherman is still weak durability wise, because most German AT options have a very easy time penetrating it, specially ATGs unlike the StuPa that can wipe them frontally unless they are the almight 6 man ATGs from the Soviets. Getting a DR buff at Vet2 won't do much, unless you level up a crew and swap them, so it has it the moment it hits the field.

The unit just got a buffs in both damage and in tenacity and got no price increase or delay.
The unit can handle ATG and AT infantry.
If in your opinion only some vehicles should be able to counter it explain which and why.

The unit is also extremely cost efficient with accessible either with no tech cost or at the same tech cost as sherman with only extra 80 munition. If you have tested the unit and you have to suggest something about the unit pls do so. Else lets not waste the time of people that have to read thru "humor" looking for helpful feedback.
6 Sep 2018, 17:39 PM
#474
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947

I tried out Mech Company some more and I got 4 points to make:

1. The WC51 really loses effectiveness as the match progresses but I still don't think it's worth to even withdraw it to get resources back, especially after you've upgraded it with the .50 cal.

It's 155mm barrage ability has a shorter range even than that of the Major, for whatever reason, and I found myself more often than not kamikatzing it in order to get a barrage off and I lost it 1-2 times out of 3.

What I suggest is giving it another upgrade, weapons carrier, allowing it to drop BARs and Bazookas or the other alternative, "locking" it down, like the Ambulance/Opel Blitz truck, deploying some mini weapon racks so your units can arm in the field, to give it more utility and use after the mid game passes.

Another thing I really liked that someone else mentioned was it capping without any upgrades.

2. Cav Rifles - I suggest making them 300 manpower but them coming with M3 Grease Guns by default and being able to upgrade with M1 Thompsons similar to the Rangers.

The idea is cutting down a bit on the manpower cost since as someone again already mentioned it, the commander is quiet manpower intensive.

3. The M3 Halftrack's med kit drop ability is somehow bugged, for me it wouldn't deploy the med bags anywhere else other than directly under it for some reason, which was a problem since I had to move it each time in order to grab them, I don't remember it doing this before, not sure if the range of the ability was reduced or something.

4. I suppose that replacing the Reserve Armor with the M10 would probably be an option provided that Cav Rifles become a solely AI unit, the M10 will provide them with the needed AT, especially if Combined Arms is made a passive for Cav Rifles, then a slot would be freed up for something else.

I really thought about it and shuffling around the tank call-ins for the USF would make some sense provided that they fit in with the commander and are balanced.

Currently the 76mm Sherman is overperforming due to Combined Arms.

Vipper makes the point that Armor provides both strong AI and AT options with the 105mm Sherman and M10 in Armor.

Another person suggested replacing the E8 in Rifle Company with the 105 Sherman.

I would go a step further and giving Armor the M26 Pershing if the M10 and 105 Sherman are moved to other commanders.

What I imagine is this:

Rifle Company - 105mm Sherman instead of E8. The 105 Sherman is an infantry support tank and would provide the Rifles with cover with their barricades.

Mech Company - M10s instead of Reserve Armor. Would provide Cav Rifles with the needed AT support if they become a dedicated AI unit, especially with Combined Arms (active or passive).

Armor Company - M26 Pershing instead of M10 Sherman and Reserve Armor instead of 105 Sherman, the commander would retain access to bulldozers.

Heavy Cav - E8 instead of M26 Pershing, would help out with Combined Arms, having Rangers as well would probably be a problem tho.

Just for the record, this is a big IF scenario I thought of based on my own experience together with what I've read on here from other people.


I like the suggestions but think that Relic would think this too much of a scope change. It would make several marginal commanders better.
6 Sep 2018, 17:44 PM
#475
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573



Swapping the M42 with a KV2 sounds good. The KV2 fits the commander, using it to hold an area and protect a medic bunker/FHQ.
Or at the very least swapping the incendiary call-in with the KV2.


As far as I understand from twitch chat they either *can't* replace it or dont want to do it for some reason

And since Urban Defence/Defensive doctrines are lucky enough to get stuck with it means there are only 3 solutions for it

1 Making it a proper AT gun
2 Making it AI gun
3 Put it in bundle with something useful

I'm pretty sceptic about N1 and N2
6 Sep 2018, 18:10 PM
#476
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Sep 2018, 17:44 PMKirrik


As far as I understand from twitch chat they either *can't* replace it or dont want to do it for some reason

And since Urban Defence/Defensive doctrines are lucky enough to get stuck with it means there are only 3 solutions for it

1 Making it a proper AT gun
...


So in you opinion what does it need to be a proper AT gun and how much should it cost?
6 Sep 2018, 18:13 PM
#477
avatar of MrBananaGrabber.
Patrion 26

Posts: 328

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Sep 2018, 17:44 PMKirrik


As far as I understand from twitch chat they either *can't* replace it or dont want to do it for some reason

And since Urban Defence/Defensive doctrines are lucky enough to get stuck with it means there are only 3 solutions for it

1 Making it a proper AT gun
2 Making it AI gun
3 Put it in bundle with something useful

I'm pretty sceptic about N1 and N2


They have done a pretty decent job of improving it but ultimately it's only ever going to be useful for a certain amount of time, then become (laughably) redundent. Unless they give it some amazing vet 3 buffs.

Switching it to an AI gun could make it a really interesting and unique unit. Hopefully that would also mean they would swap the incendiary call-in for something that helps provide decent late game AT support.
6 Sep 2018, 19:52 PM
#478
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 422 | Subs: 2

Bundling M42 with stuff isn't going to make the M42 itself any better.

Give it an AoE (like a weaker T-70 gun) or a canister shot ability and the ability to retreat would be quite interesting.

Alternatively, keep the AT role and give it a de-track vehicle ability.
Phy
6 Sep 2018, 19:55 PM
#479
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

kv2 need to be brought in more commanders and tweaked a bit. Please :(
6 Sep 2018, 20:01 PM
#480
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 422 | Subs: 2

Also, a few thoughts about NKVD Rifle Disruption:

The hotkey for Scorched Earth is the same as the reinforce. I noticed this when I was trying to reinforce my engineers by mashing R as per usual and nothing happened.

The voiceline for Scorched Earth unlock currently uses "Combat engineers can now build tank traps," which is misleading. The voiceline for "Booby Trap Point" from Urban Defense will fit the ability much better.

The Commissar Squad uses conscript voices when under fire, suppressed, etc. Since the bodyguards are Guards, they should use Guards voices.

The Force Retreat ability shows Americans on the icon instead of Germans like the Fear Propaganda Barrage icon should have.
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