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Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

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28 Aug 2018, 06:16 AM
#21
avatar of LimaOscarMike

Posts: 445

combined arms surely a buff to twisted tooty Kappa Kappa
28 Aug 2018, 07:11 AM
#22
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 550


Some feedback to the new "Overwatch doctrine"

1. I really like the changes you made, the doctrine feels fresh and is a lot more useful now. But think about swapping "For the fatherland" with "Sector assault"; i think the doctrine should have at least 1 off-map arty / air attack.

2. A simple suggestion to make Jaegers a lot more useful:
a) Remove "Sprint"
b) Give Jaegers the Rifle 'Nades ability from the grenadiers.
This would fit a lot better to their theme of log-distance infantry and would complement the fighting style of the other infantry units of OKW.

28 Aug 2018, 07:36 AM
#23
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2610 | Subs: 1

USF

ARMOUR COMPANY

Assault Engineers
Veterancy 2 now bolsters squad to five men upon reinforcement

The issue with Assault Engineers is that they never reach vet2 before ending completely useless. Why would I call a 280mp unit that is bad right of the bat just to wait for a hypotetic vet2 buff

Elite Vehicle Crews
Repair speed increased by 0.5
Veterancy gain increased by 15%

Interesting change, but i don't know if that would encourage me to pick this doctrine

M10 Tank Destroyer
Aimed HE round ability added that will blind enemy tanks and disable weapons for a short duration enemy tanks for X seconds and provide decent effect against infantry.

Basically what the Stuart already provides but a bit easier to use, I'm not sure this is the kind of ability that encourage me to pick up the doctrine

Sherman 105mm Dozer
The intention has been to give this unit a more devastating anti infantry and emplacement profile. Stats reflect a less potent Brumbar, with the upside being that the 105mm is turreted.

AOE damage from 1/0.35/0.0.5 to 1/0.35/0.175
AOE distance from 1.125/2.25/3.375 to 0.325/0.75/5.5
Veterancy 2 Bonuses from +20% speed, +20% rotation, +30% Accuracy, +20% Accel/Decel to 0.8 Received Damage, -15% weapon reload, +20% rotation
Veterancy 3 Bonuses from 3: +35 weapon rotation, -20% Reload to +35% weapon rotation, -10% weapon reload, +30% Accel/Decel
240mm Artillery

Need to do more test but even with those buff I can't see the bulldozer as anything else than a troll unit, safety would always recommand me to build a regular Sherman and use HE shells

240mm Artillery
We have redesigned this ability to still be a strong area denial tool, while inflicting more consistent yet less devastating damage to units in the affected area.

Number of shells from 5 to 7
Duration between shells from 12 to 8
Instant kill crit against infantry removed
AOE damage from 1/0.15/0.05 to 1/0.2/0.125
AOE from 9 to 10

Any improvement for this ability is good to take, need to do more tests to see how it impacts the game

I have been picking this doctrine on 1vs1 for some time this patch, mainly for the M10 cheap price to counter Pz4 rush strats. Elite crew and M10 ability revamp are nice but not enough to change my mind about it: nothing on its own, just a counter pick for Pz4 rush strat.


MECHANIZED COMPANY

Mortar Halftrack - Removed
80% of the time you pick this doctrine is for the Mortar HT, I guess you just killed the doctrine with that change.

Mechanized Group
WC-51 and M3 Halftrack consolidated and available from the Rifle Command. M3 requires either a Captain or Lieutenant to be deployed.
WC-51

50cal HMG upgrade cost from 60 to 45
Receives shared experience

Have ever ask yourself why nodoby use the WC51 and M3? I mean Refit and Refuel may give them back some interest early game but that's not what it is supposed to be, WC51 and M3 require a monster of attention and baby sitting for a really low value. There is also another reason why you don't see them: Suppression / Atgun tiers system out of date. You want to give WC51 and M3 some more love, try to give them suppression ability for a munition cost then people would emphasy them with a T2 build. Actually a vehicule that propose neither high anti infantry value or high anti tank value (at least at the momento it hits the field) is just a waste of money.

Refit and Refuel

Re-added to the game in free slot
Combined Arms

Added in place of M21 Mortar Halftrack

76mm Sherman
Population from 14 to 12
Cost from 380/135 to 380/125

76mm Sherman provides a good alternative… to Soviet and their T34-76, what kind of alternative does provide the 76mm to USF? nothing enough interesting. Better remove it and add the Easy8 to this doctrine.
28 Aug 2018, 07:36 AM
#24
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1820

And making the sherman 76mm cheaper...idk...it is in a better spot than a p4.
now its cheaper. more spamable and low popcap. where is the advantage from axis anymore? infantery? No. Tanks? No. Arty? lol...

Even that axis hasnt a self-propelled gun like allies make such a huge differenz. your own arty will be destroyed after the first barrage through callins form allies. while allies can move their arty after a barrage and will still live much longer.

germans need a grille, wespe or hummel.
28 Aug 2018, 07:45 AM
#25
avatar of Antaria

Posts: 68

The changes on the Valentine are nice so far, but its scan/IR ability needs to be removed because it's still bugged.
28 Aug 2018, 07:56 AM
#26
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13805 | Subs: 7

Is it only me, or did they overbuffed the croc? I mean...a tank with high HP and armor, with turrent which can deny any infantery and AT gun AND now even can take out any medium tank and can even deal with panthers? Stick it with one allie TD...and you overrun everything your oponent can have easily.


And comon...OKW get nothing? Even the crap STtiger was nerfed ...again?

There is alot allie biased develop behind this...


The only tank any churchill variant was able to engage and win against was P4, absolutely nothing changed with the croc change, if you'll lose a panther to any kind of churchill, drop the game, because there is not enough l2p in the whole world to save you. And since croc was underpowered and needed buffs anyway, you'd rather see the flamers buffed back?

And ofc a lot of it looks allied biased.
You completely disregarded axis rework, which is equally amazing.

Now, interesting move with FHQ for soviets, I also can't praise enough how happy I am for M-42 buff, that unit deserved love for so long.

Commie squad feels..... underwhelming would be an understatement, love the idea, hate the execution, because there is no infantry that could actually benefit greatly from these buffs and one is glorified HTD anyway.

At first I was unsure about M10 new shot ability, however considering the fact it needed something completely distinct to not be inferior jackson, I guess it'll fall in line eventually.

I also can't understand how 240mm arty was made less lethal, but railway didn't get the same treatment.

AT nades on REs for brits, that's a game changing stuff, but with all UKF gimmicks butchered or removed, its a mandatory addition and long overdue.

Not entirely sure about KV-8 rec dmg vet.
It is a damn expensive unit and with pretty luckluster vet, but damn, rec dmg is stronk.
28 Aug 2018, 08:07 AM
#27
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1983 | Subs: 3

Elite armor:

Sad to see no changes to signal relay. Swapping it with panzer tactician smoke would be a welcome and fresh change.

Panzer commander: good changes. Sight range is decent and the artillery callin seems quite good. Still takes a pretty long time to fall (don't know if this is intentional).

Emergency repair is still kinda underwelming. It's pretty effective for its low cost but doesn't seem to be very worthwile as a commander ability. I'd rather see a higher cost with much greater repair (comparable to Soviet self repair). Or at least consider buffing it to 300-400HP (price to 50-60 mun).

If the Sturmtiger is getting its destructive power changed (read: nerfed), it should at least be given (back) a longer range.


So overall pretty good changes but I think it still lacks the spice to overthrow the meta commanders. It needs just a little more punch.
28 Aug 2018, 08:21 AM
#28
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 550

Elite armor:


So overall pretty good changes but I think it still lacks the spice to overthrow the meta commanders. It needs just a little more punch.


+1
28 Aug 2018, 08:28 AM
#29
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4849 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2018, 07:45 AMAntaria
The changes on the Valentine are nice so far, but its scan/IR ability needs to be removed because it's still bugged.


you tested it in the mod?
Because we changed some things on it.
28 Aug 2018, 08:52 AM
#30
avatar of Antaria

Posts: 68



you tested it in the mod?
Because we changed some things on it.


Yes, 2v2 custom. Good lethality and support abilities. Main gun isn't that accurate but it could just be RNG. Just consider removing the scan if the bug can't be fixed.
28 Aug 2018, 08:53 AM
#31
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 335

Very nice changes! thank you for Mr Smith and Sturmpanther etc for fixing up these rather useless commanders. This will feel like a breath of fresh air and I can't wait to try out the new Elite Armour with the buffed Sturmtiger. British snare also looks like a great change, Hans brought this up on stream a few weeks ago but I think this will work great and is what is needed to fix faction holes (VERY smart idea putting it on the sappers, as sappers come the same time as volk faust or rifle vet 1 usually rather than just giving it to tommy).

Since someone decided to invis my first post....

Potentially problematic:

Croc callin

Elite vehicle crews from USF

Valentine/Sexton combo

KV-8

LeFH in overwatch coupled with maximum vision trucks and flares everywhere. Also its 1-3 vet is matching ostheer which is a massive buff, all while having better base scatter stats.

5 man grenadiers

Stug E

Other things which are too vague which raises concerns are the M10 HEs, perimeter overwatch from UKF, M-42 AT gun, and stormtroopers honestly look terrible.


well maybe you should try and be a bit more positive rather than trashcanning the hard work of the mod team. I mean you've not even tried the mod yet and you're here saying all the changes are bad. I think that is why your first post was deleted.

Is it only me, or did they overbuffed the croc? I mean...a tank with high HP and armor, with turrent which can deny any infantery and AT gun AND now even can take out any medium tank and can even deal with panthers? Stick it with one allie TD...and you overrun everything your oponent can have easily.


And comon...OKW get nothing? Even the crap STtiger was nerfed ...again?

There is alot allie biased develop behind this...


ST was buffed, it now has a large suppression bubble which will tackle blobs as you can't really dodge.

Croc can take out panthers? I think Panthers have a lot better range, pen and mobility. If you lose a command panther to croc I would like you see the mod replay. I have yet to play but I think it is a good change, Croc now will feel like a heavy tank on par with Tiger or Pershing. Just not as good in AT and range but better AI and health.
28 Aug 2018, 08:55 AM
#32
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1820

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2018, 07:56 AMKatitof


The only tank any churchill variant was able to engage and win against was P4, absolutely nothing changed with the croc change, if you'll lose a panther to any kind of churchill, drop the game, because there is not enough l2p in the whole world to save you. And since croc was underpowered and needed buffs anyway, you'd rather see the flamers buffed back?

And ofc a lot of it looks allied biased.
You completely disregarded axis rework, which is equally amazing.

Now, interesting move with FHQ for soviets, I also can't praise enough how happy I am for M-42 buff, that unit deserved love for so long.

Commie squad feels..... underwhelming would be an understatement, love the idea, hate the execution, because there is no infantry that could actually benefit greatly from these buffs and one is glorified HTD anyway.

At first I was unsure about M10 new shot ability, however considering the fact it needed something completely distinct to not be inferior jackson, I guess it'll fall in line eventually.

I also can't understand how 240mm arty was made less lethal, but railway didn't get the same treatment.

AT nades on REs for brits, that's a game changing stuff, but with all UKF gimmicks butchered or removed, its a mandatory addition and long overdue.

Not entirely sure about KV-8 rec dmg vet.
It is a damn expensive unit and with pretty luckluster vet, but damn, rec dmg is stronk.


once again, bro:
YOU NEVER PLAYED BRITS! NEVER!
Not one single game!


SO you never played croc. YOu have no clue what u talking about. Stick the croc with firefly and noone can stop you...if u do the right things. Panther will not lose in 1v1 vs croc...yes...but it will punish a panther to try to deal with it...it can last long enough that a FF can kill the panther easily.

Once more: play brits and than we talk, ok?
28 Aug 2018, 08:59 AM
#33
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1820



Croc can take out panthers? I think Panthers have a lot better range, pen and mobility. If you lose a command panther to croc I would like you see the mod replay. I have yet to play but I think it is a good change, Croc now will feel like a heavy tank on par with Tiger or Pershing. Just not as good in AT and range but better AI and health.


can you pls quote where i said that croc take take out panthers by itsself?? i said: i can deal with it.
Si said stick the croc with a FF and now you can overrun the most lines easily.
28 Aug 2018, 09:04 AM
#34
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 335



can you pls quote where i said that croc take take out panthers by itsself?? i said: i can deal with it.
Si said stick the croc with a FF and now you can overrun the most lines easily.


You said it can deal with Panthers! Any churchill can not deal with panthers, they are just a big vet sponge as they pen you at range. Remember Croc can't even shoot through smoke with attack ground, it really is bad at AT due to this and panzer tactician being in every useful Ostheer doc.

FF and churchill will get demolished by tiger and P4 or command panther and P4. FF is so slowwwwwww
28 Aug 2018, 09:38 AM
#35
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13805 | Subs: 7



once again, bro:
YOU NEVER PLAYED BRITS! NEVER!
Not one single game!


SO you never played croc. YOu have no clue what u talking about. Stick the croc with firefly and noone can stop you...if u do the right things. Panther will not lose in 1v1 vs croc...yes...but it will punish a panther to try to deal with it...it can last long enough that a FF can kill the panther easily.

Once more: play brits and than we talk, ok?




can you pls quote where i said that croc take take out panthers by itsself?? i said: i can deal with it.
Si said stick the croc with a FF and now you can overrun the most lines easily.


You said it can deal with it.
That directly implies it counters it.

What you're trying to spin it into is the exact same BS as "grenadiers can deal with IS-2 if there are 2 panthers behind them" kind of thing, which means its NOT church that "deals with it", its the unit behind it, supporting it, where church itself is impotent.

Don't try to weasel out of it, you've said something exceptionally stupid again, own it and admit your own bs.
Its not a hard concept to understand.
28 Aug 2018, 09:47 AM
#36
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1820

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2018, 09:38 AMKatitof




You said it can deal with it.
That directly implies it counters it.

What you're trying to spin it into is the exact same BS as "grenadiers can deal with IS-2 if there are 2 panthers behind them" kind of thing, which means its NOT church that "deals with it", its the unit behind it, supporting it, where church itself is impotent.

Don't try to weasel out of it, you've said something exceptionally stupid again, own it and admit your own bs.
Its not a hard concept to understand.

Wrong. Deal with it means it doesnt hardcounter by the panther. i bet a 1v1 vs panthers ends in a half-life panther. which is good enough...when you look to the FF friend behind it. ..which take half HP from panthers in luckly 3-5sec
28 Aug 2018, 09:57 AM
#37
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4849 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2018, 08:52 AMAntaria


Yes, 2v2 custom. Good lethality and support abilities. Main gun isn't that accurate but it could just be RNG. Just consider removing the scan if the bug can't be fixed.


you have the replay?

"the modifier that makes stuff visible has a duration limit now
so it should cancel properly"
that was the plan to fight vs this bug.
28 Aug 2018, 09:59 AM
#38
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4849 | Subs: 17

Very nice changes! thank you for Mr Smith and Sturmpanther etc for fixing up these rather useless commanders.


thank youB-)

Tho mr.smith is out since the SBP - Reallifestuff. But thx god we have miragefla, who replaced him. Also some other people in the background are big help as well for coding all this stuff!
28 Aug 2018, 10:00 AM
#39
avatar of August1996

Posts: 207

Anyone up for some games 1v1 with mod?
28 Aug 2018, 10:18 AM
#40
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 676 | Subs: 1


Wrong. Deal with it means it doesnt hardcounter by the panther. i bet a 1v1 vs panthers ends in a half-life panther. which is good enough...when you look to the FF friend behind it. ..which take half HP from panthers in luckly 3-5sec

Yeah, no pudding, of course panther should lose if its sent alone against a combo, get your own combo
Panther and JGDpanzer wil deal with them
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