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russian armor

Impact of smoke on AT grenades

11 Aug 2018, 09:55 AM
#21
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



I just tested the different snares in game and it seems like the range datas are incorrect. Rifles AT nade has no 30 range, Grens 30 range seems unlikly too (it is only a bit more than Volks one (maybe 25?)) and 18 range for RPG 40 also seems wrong (should be higher).
I can show some screenshots if you want.

That is because that is the range of the weapon not the ability itself. Abilities have different ranges.
11 Aug 2018, 12:54 PM
#22
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



With the "don't have this either" I was referring to the loss of snares when upgrading SMGs, Submachine guns etc.


Doctrinal being the difference between STGs and a snare and ppsh and a snare. Plus ppsh lower far dps slightly iirc where STGs are a straight buff across the board.

The thing is with fausts on volks is you WILL have them all over the place and they will be decent fighters. Neither is necessarily true for cons. You may not go a ppsh commander in which case you will not build a lot of cons because without ppsh that's a losing strat.
Rifles you can't really restrict it because it's a vet ability so it would turn them into a Soviet squad (where they effectively don't have a vet 1 ability) and Soviet pay specifically for them so it would be strange to lock them out of something they specifically unlock if they buy a commander upgrade they specifically chose. Vs you get it no matter what so there's no reason to put any thought into it at all just buy your no Brainer upgrade. Each. And every. Game.
11 Aug 2018, 13:54 PM
#23
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

Allies have repair abilities because their tanks are flat out inferior to Axis tanks in direct combat, powerful non-doctrinal endgame tanks and smoke/camo combined with repair abilities would be flat out retarded, as if Axis ALREADY does not dominate allies in 1v1 and it gets even worse for team games
11 Aug 2018, 14:33 PM
#24
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


Least drawbacked? As far as I know only Panzerfaust is bugged (and satchel when you throw it at Sdkfz 250)and it can not be used throught smoke and neither do you have somthing like the "Uraa" ability for your infantry. What other drawbacks for snares are there ?


How about the minimum range for the US AT rifle nade? The fact that I have to unlock it for every squad even if I'm replacing one 20 mins into the game? The fact that I have to pay 25 fuel just to unlock snares as the soviets?

The US AT nade is plenty bugged, don't kid yourself. The minimum range fucks with it all the time
11 Aug 2018, 14:48 PM
#25
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Aug 2018, 09:55 AMVipper

That is because that is the range of the weapon not the ability itself. Abilities have different ranges.

What does that mean? I thought that once the AT nade was used its range is infinite(because it will follow its target)


The fact that I have to pay 25 fuel just to unlock snares as the soviets?


What about the fact that Allied tech prizes get compensated by Axis higher tier-up prizes ?


The US AT nade is plenty bugged, don't kid yourself. The minimum range fucks with it all the time

Now hear from this for the first time. As I said "As far as I know only Panzerfaust is bugged (and satchel when you throw it at Sdkfz 250)"

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Aug 2018, 13:54 PMKirrik
Allies have repair abilities because their tanks are flat out inferior to Axis tanks in direct combat, powerful non-doctrinal endgame tanks and smoke/camo combined with repair abilities would be flat out retarded

Ever looked at the fuel prizes of the "flat out inferior" allied tanks ?
Also I do not get what's your problem. Noone asked for a "non-doc endgame tank with smoke,camo and repairability"


Doctrinal being the difference between STGs and a snare and ppsh and a snare.

So STG + snare shouldn't be possible because its nondoc (nondoc = has to be worse)
but Panzertactican smoke shouldn't be able to counter snares (doc = has to be worse)?



Plus ppsh lower far dps slightly iirc where STGs are a straight buff across the board.

Isn't Ppsh 41 better in clos combat (at least this feels so when I play soviets)?


You may not go a ppsh commander in which case you will not build a lot of cons because without ppsh that's a losing strat.

Not having a lot of cons it a losing strat too since you will lack infantry.


Soviet pay specifically for them so

And Axis have higher tier-up prizes to compensate this


it would be strange to lock them out of something they specifically unlock if they buy a commander upgrade they specifically chose.

Doesn't the same kinda apply for MP 40 volks too ?


11 Aug 2018, 14:57 PM
#26
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


What does that mean? I thought that once the AT nade was used its range is infinite(because it will follow its target)

Certain "ability" weapons will not "follow" beyond a range.

Penal satchel at a certain patch would aboard if they vehicle move beyond range of the ability.

Some weapon also have ranges listed longer than the one they actually used because they use the extra range under certain circumstances like "victor target" or with vet bonuses. (although some of the values might have been fixed in the latest patches).

For AT snares (and some other abilities) one has to check the ranges given for the ability and not the ranges of the weapon itself.
11 Aug 2018, 15:55 PM
#27
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Aug 2018, 13:54 PMKirrik
powerful non-doctrinal endgame tanks and smoke/camo combined with repair abilities would be flat out retarded


What are you talking about? There's a grand total of one tank that can camouflage and it needs vet for that, there are no repair abilities for German tanks except OKW's Elite Armor's criticals-repair (which sucks) and smoke is doctrinal. Also German tanks are generally only marginally better than their Allied counterparts, which is made up for in higher costs. Only the Panther is noticeably better than most other tank destroyers but it's also much more expensive.
11 Aug 2018, 16:56 PM
#28
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


What about the fact that Allied tech prizes get compensated by Axis higher tier-up prizes ?


The allied faction with the cheapest teching doesn't even have snares. Late game tech prices have little to do with the drawbacks of snares you asked for. If I need snares to counter light vehicle play as soviets, I gotta spend 25 fuel just for that.

I mean the minimum range on USF snare is a pretty obvious drawback. How the hell does smoke difficulty(even though tank smoke is vastly more common on axis tanks) compare to not even being able to use the snare because you're too close to the tank? And like Vipper said, there's also some snares that cancel if you leave the range before they are thrown.

11 Aug 2018, 17:09 PM
#29
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

It's a glowing testament to how good the balance is now that the ferocious balance forum argument is over something this minor.
11 Aug 2018, 17:25 PM
#30
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Aug 2018, 17:09 PMLago
It's a glowing testament to how good the balance is now that the ferocious balance forum argument is over something this minor.



Ever played UKF vs Ost?
11 Aug 2018, 17:45 PM
#31
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Ever played UKF vs Ost?


https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/viewBoard/12/steamid/76561198031945233

Granted, at the top level UKF and USF's deficiencies relative to SOV bite hard, UKF especially. But for the rest us, the balance is vastly improved over what it used to be.
11 Aug 2018, 20:20 PM
#32
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Aug 2018, 17:09 PMLago
It's a glowing testament to how good the balance is now that the ferocious balance forum argument is over something this minor.


Something so minor? I bet if it would be the other way around it would be considered as the "ultimate bias towards axis"
11 Aug 2018, 20:58 PM
#33
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518



The allied faction with the cheapest teching doesn't even have snares.



Brits having no AT snare for their regular infantry without doctrine is a problem. So is Satchels and RPG 43/40s getting thrown through the smoke


If I need snares to counter light vehicle play as soviets, I gotta spend 25 fuel just for that.


And if you don't need it then you will be ahead when it comes to teching up


I mean the minimum range on USF snare is a pretty obvious drawback. How the hell does smoke difficulty(even though tank smoke is vastly more common on axis tanks) compare to not even being able to use the snare because you're too close to the tank?

So I just did some tests and I could stand my Rifles on a distance where their faces were touching steel. And? The rifle snare was still useable. Where was your minimum range?


And like Vipper said, there's also some snares that cancel if you leave the range before they are thrown.

As far as I understood Panzerfaust also falls under this category
11 Aug 2018, 21:02 PM
#34
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

Don’t all snares still fire through smoke once the animation starts? Yes you can’t shoot the snare if you can’t target the vehicle. What is the problem here?
11 Aug 2018, 21:06 PM
#35
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

Don’t all snares still fire through smoke once the animation starts? Yes you can’t shoot the snare if you can’t target the vehicle. What is the problem here?

The problem is that Satchel and RPG 40/43 can be used on vehicles which are already covered in smoke. While the Panzerfaust can't (you can aim at the vehicle but the animation won't start)
11 Aug 2018, 21:19 PM
#36
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4


The problem is that Satchel and RPG 40/43 can be used on vehicles which are already covered in smoke. While the Panzerfaust can't (you can aim at the vehicle but the animation won't start)


Is there any proof of that? Like if the smoke takes effect, you can’t see that vehicle anyways and can’t target it with anything. Prior to the smoke taking effect I think everything works like the smoke isn’t even there.

Basically: video please
11 Aug 2018, 22:06 PM
#37
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Something so minor? I bet if it would be the other way around it would be considered as the "ultimate bias towards axis"


By the type of poster that treats balance as some sort of competition, maybe.

But nobody with any influence over the game listens to those posters.
11 Aug 2018, 22:30 PM
#38
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


So I just did some tests and I could stand my Rifles on a distance where their faces were touching steel.


Against standstill vehicles in cheat mod? Play more USF in actual games and you'll notice it cancel out sometimes if the vehicle moves in and out of the minimum range. You can clearly see the min range UI when you click the ability.


And? The rifle snare was still useable. Where was your minimum range?


"Your"? Where's the entire problem you're talking about? If the vehicles obscured by smoke, nothing can target it. If you can target it, then you have another unit giving you LOS from another angle. This is such a non-issue
11 Aug 2018, 23:30 PM
#39
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518



Is there any proof of that? Like if the smoke takes effect, you can’t see that vehicle anyways and can’t target it with anything. Prior to the smoke taking effect I think everything works like the smoke isn’t even there.

Basically: video please


https://www.coh2.org/replay/81742/smoke-vs-snare/page/1#post_id694115



Play more USF in actual games and you'll notice it cancel out sometimes if the vehicle moves in and out of the minimum range. You can clearly see the min range UI when you click the ability.









"Your"? Where's the entire problem you're talking about? If the vehicles obscured by smoke, nothing can target it.

Except Russian AT nades.
12 Aug 2018, 01:05 AM
#40
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4




I don’t have access to CoH2 currently. So if it isn’t a video I can’t see it.
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