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The MG42 needs to be looked, the allies mg's are dog shit.

25 Jun 2018, 17:49 PM
#41
avatar of OuTLaWSTaR
Donator 11

Posts: 453

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jun 2018, 02:19 AMMittens
I mean it suppresses in 1 volley making it hard to move out of its LOS and then pens on third volley. If you don't know its there you its practically an insta-retreat for anyone in its line of fire.

Not to mention it does a decent amount of damage, costs relatively cheap and is in t0

I'm all for smoke and flank but its field of fire as well makes it hard to move around let alone smoke as it fires outside of its arc due to the arc actually being further forward at the tip of the barrel.

I'd suggest a suppression tone down to reduce the insta pen but keep the long term pin idea in place. Its just so hard to leave it arc.


Allied blobs will overwhelm with said nerf and cause constant lack of early map control which is vital for Ostheer survivability.
25 Jun 2018, 17:50 PM
#42
avatar of OuTLaWSTaR
Donator 11

Posts: 453

Sure. Then buff grens early game. If not, leave mg42 as it is.


Agreed, if said proposed 42 nerf.
26 Jun 2018, 00:13 AM
#43
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2018, 16:46 PMEsxile
Grens are not glass cannon.


they are the least durable line infantry in the game. Sure they are at least more durable than the support weapon but that's a low bar.
26 Jun 2018, 04:59 AM
#44
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1



they are the least durable line infantry in the game. Sure they are at least more durable than the support weapon but that's a low bar.


Don't feed the troll.
26 Jun 2018, 06:14 AM
#45
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1



they are the least durable line infantry in the game. Sure they are at least more durable than the support weapon but that's a low bar.


They have the same amount of HP than any other line infantry, so tell me how could they be less durable. Allied wiping potential have been constantly erased in the last patches, today you really need to be lucky, or to have bad luck, to get your gren squad wiped with a single shot.

26 Jun 2018, 06:16 AM
#46
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2018, 06:14 AMEsxile


Allied wiping potential have been constantly erased in the last patches, today you really need to be lucky, or to have bad luck, to get your gren squad wiped with a single shot.



Yeah, now they don't always die with one shot, but regularly get two shotted. Seemslegit.
26 Jun 2018, 06:29 AM
#47
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1



Yeah, now they don't always die with one shot, but regularly get two shotted. Seemslegit.


Enlight us, with what unit? The last remaining Allied field unit that could potentially wipe a squad on regular basis today is the Churchill AVRE and it is not the kind of unit you field at 5 minutes mark.
Then there are lucky wipes due to squad models climbing on each other behind a cover, but 4 or 5 model squad doesn't make a lot of difference in that case.

On topic, I think the MG42 is in its good spot. Soviet have hoora/molotov and USF early smoke mortar to counter it. Problem is UKF, but thats lies inside UKF design.

If something should be change to the Ostheer, I would argue that reduce their starting Manpower by 20/30 less would be a better step than touching the unit itself.
26 Jun 2018, 08:50 AM
#48
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2018, 06:14 AMEsxile


They have the same amount of HP than any other line infantry, so tell me how could they be less durable. Allied wiping potential have been constantly erased in the last patches, today you really need to be lucky, or to have bad luck, to get your gren squad wiped with a single shot.



4 man squads have 320hp. 6 man squads have 480hp.

Given that you need to retreat with about 80hp left (2 half health models) so the squad isn't wiped, Gren squads have to retreat after taking 240 damage, while the similarly priced con squad can take about 400 damage.

Cons do have a target size of 1.087 I think, but that's not even 10% increased RA in exchange for 50% more health.

Grens have great damage output but have the worst survivability amongst mainline squads - pretty much everyone who plays this game regularly can agree on that.
26 Jun 2018, 09:39 AM
#49
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1



4 man squads have 320hp. 6 man squads have 480hp.

Given that you need to retreat with about 80hp left (2 half health models) so the squad isn't wiped, Gren squads have to retreat after taking 240 damage, while the similarly priced con squad can take about 400 damage.

Cons do have a target size of 1.087 I think, but that's not even 10% increased RA in exchange for 50% more health.

Grens have great damage output but have the worst survivability amongst mainline squads - pretty much everyone who plays this game regularly can agree on that.


That's why Cons beat Gren at all ranges all the game long.

All models have 80hp and are exposed to the same wipe potential. Allied AI units have been methodically nerfed to reduce the wiping potential of their AI units. Today you really need bad luck to see your gren squad being wiped by anything else than a AVRE or a KATY close range.
Conclusion = they are not glass cannon.
26 Jun 2018, 09:56 AM
#50
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2018, 09:39 AMEsxile


That's why Cons beat Gren at all ranges all the game long.

All models have 80hp and are exposed to the same wipe potential. Allied AI units have been methodically nerfed to reduce the wiping potential of their AI units. Today you really need bad luck to see your gren squad being wiped by anything else than a AVRE or a KATY close range.
Conclusion = they are not glass cannon.



Grens being glass cannons or bad in general is a myth. I don´t know why people keep repeating it over and over again.
26 Jun 2018, 10:14 AM
#51
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



4 man squads have 320hp. 6 man squads have 480hp.

Given that you need to retreat with about 80hp left (2 half health models) so the squad isn't wiped, Gren squads have to retreat after taking 240 damage, while the similarly priced con squad can take about 400 damage.

Cons do have a target size of 1.087 I think, but that's not even 10% increased RA in exchange for 50% more health.

Grens have great damage output but have the worst survivability amongst mainline squads - pretty much everyone who plays this game regularly can agree on that.



You need to check the stats.

Con target size is 1.09

Gren target size is 0.91

So it´s rougly 20% difference in RA.

Plus Grens deal more damage than Cons. Which balances out the lack of HP. Which makes saying Grens are less durable than Cons because they have less total HP wrong.
26 Jun 2018, 11:27 AM
#52
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Cons are 1.03
26 Jun 2018, 11:48 AM
#53
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jun 2018, 11:27 AMKatitof
Cons are 1.03

That is incorrect. They are 1.09 (1.089 if I remember correctly).
26 Jun 2018, 12:07 PM
#54
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

Yeah they are 1.09...just check cruzz´s stat sheet.
26 Jun 2018, 14:10 PM
#55
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1




You need to check the stats.

Con target size is 1.09

Gren target size is 0.91

So it´s rougly 20% difference in RA.

Plus Grens deal more damage than Cons. Which balances out the lack of HP. Which makes saying Grens are less durable than Cons because they have less total HP wrong.



It's still correct. 20% difference in RA doesn't magically make up for 50% more hp. RA doesn't help against explosives or flame either. You're just disagreeing to be disagreeable, which is what you always do. I already established upfront that Grens have better damage output, which is why they're described as glass cannon. Glass = less durability Cannon = better offense

Grens have more firepower but are less durable overall. I'm not claiming one is better than the other.
26 Jun 2018, 15:14 PM
#56
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1




It's still correct. 20% difference in RA doesn't magically make up for 50% more hp. RA doesn't help against explosives or flame either. You're just disagreeing to be disagreeable, which is what you always do. I already established upfront that Grens have better damage output, which is why they're described as glass cannon. Glass = less durability Cannon = better offense

Grens have more firepower but are less durable overall. I'm not claiming one is better than the other.


The thing you don´t keep in mind is that both units face different units in combat. In a vacuum you are right, but in the actual in game reality you are not. People have pointed that out already, not sure if I really have to explain it again.
26 Jun 2018, 15:46 PM
#57
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


Cons do have a target size of 1.087 I think, but that's not even 10% increased RA in exchange for 50% more health.


Grens have a Target size of .91 so conscripts have nearly 20% larger Target size...

Edit: saw someone else corrected you, my bad
26 Jun 2018, 16:26 PM
#58
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

Are people comparing 4 men squad survivability vs 6 men squad survivability......? That seems pretty straightforward to me.....
26 Jun 2018, 17:32 PM
#59
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Are people comparing 4 men squad survivability vs 6 men squad survivability......? That seems pretty straightforward to me.....

But the models have the same health! This is why snipers are the most durable squads of all
26 Jun 2018, 17:37 PM
#60
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587



Don't even get why you used that many maxims. Feels like you could've won just fine with a few less mgs and a few more cons...




Do grens and volks not have snares? If their "spamming" maxims they will not have too many cons. Would love to see a replay of a recent maxim spam used against you


You contradict yourself after I delivered the maximspam replay. If you want advice to get better rank, feel free to ask nicely next time.
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