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Bring back two man/woman soviet snipers [poll]

22 May 2018, 16:10 PM
#61
avatar of swordfisch

Posts: 138

Nerfing 2man sniper fire rate but decreasing it's aim time (making it's role clear as sniper killer). Would have been a perfectly fine change if you want to talk balance, right now I'm ironically seeing just as many if not more sov snipers since the swap.

Token evidence I know but I feel like relic have just focused on a silly idea put forward by mr smith or something without looking at the broader picture. But it's not just the sov sniper, many units are losing their flavor like this in the eternal blood sacrifice that is bring units "into line" with each other.
22 May 2018, 18:24 PM
#62
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Proposal: 2 model recon squad something like pathfinder. vet 1 allows for a snipe ability like the the AA campagn but maybe a small amount of suppression. main role is recon type abilities. Flares, maybe a scout option (lock down when in Camo, provides improved Los and deception of camod units on the mini map) can build the blind from Soviet campagn.

Not a traditional sniper, but still unique and fills a unique role. Acts as a force multiplier and still synergies well with the Soviet roster from the maxim to artillery. Double sniper won't be forcing retreats on OST squads but will be punishing if left unchecked.
23 May 2018, 05:02 AM
#63
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Proposal: 2 model recon squad something like pathfinder. vet 1 allows for a snipe ability like the the AA campagn but maybe a small amount of suppression. main role is recon type abilities. Flares, maybe a scout option (lock down when in Camo, provides improved Los and deception of camod units on the mini map) can build the blind from Soviet campagn.

Not a traditional sniper, but still unique and fills a unique role. Acts as a force multiplier and still synergies well with the Soviet roster from the maxim to artillery. Double sniper won't be forcing retreats on OST squads but will be punishing if left unchecked.

I really wish that was a base unit for usf. It just sounds like it’d fit the faction so well and finally provide a more reliable option to counter ost snipers.
23 May 2018, 07:21 AM
#64
avatar of Siphon X.
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 1138 | Subs: 2

I made a poll on this before the patch went live (here). Unfortunately, the possible answers were worded not in the best way, but it is quite clear that this is quite a controversial topic.

I personally would have preferred to keep the two man sniper team to avoid further homogenization of factions. Yeah, it might be that the sniper previously was OP, but I would be very surprised if the team couldn't have been kept by making a few minor tweaks.

Interestingly, the soviet sniper team was rarely considered OP or even worthwhile in past iterations, in particular after losing sprint. E.g. if you check the numbers e.g. for WPC, snipers were build in only 15 out of 75 games, even though T1 was built in 36 games. So, it seems unlikely that a 2 man team can't be balanced...
23 May 2018, 09:17 AM
#65
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

I made a poll on this before the patch went live (here). Unfortunately, the possible answers were worded not in the best way, but it is quite clear that this is quite a controversial topic.

I personally would have preferred to keep the two man sniper team to avoid further homogenization of factions. Yeah, it might be that the sniper previously was OP, but I would be very surprised if the team couldn't have been kept by making a few minor tweaks.

Interestingly, the soviet sniper team was rarely considered OP or even worthwhile in past iterations, in particular after losing sprint. E.g. if you check the numbers e.g. for WPC, snipers were build in only 15 out of 75 games, even though T1 was built in 36 games. So, it seems unlikely that a 2 man team can't be balanced...


Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the problem arised in such order:
1. Before brits - no sniper duels as ost sniper camo is too quick for that and sov sniper is at 2 men.
2. Brits - Sniper duel between brits and ost. Brit sniper in a losing position due to slower reload. Both have really quick camo.
3. Sniper camo changed - snipers cant camo quickly and in fights. That means even soviet sniper can countersnipe which makes it a viable option against ostheer.
4. Current patch - sniper duels in two matchups. Soviet sniper off charts with its new firing rate.

The points of 1 and 2 are when sov snipers were considered bad, even though they were not as bad as people have thought. Anything later is the power creep of soviet sniper. That said, I think pre patch sniper with the changes to its counters would be really ok this patch.
23 May 2018, 14:16 PM
#66
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4


for WPC, snipers were build in only 15 out of 75 games, even though T1 was built in 36 games. So, it seems unlikely that a 2 man team can't be balanced...


IIRC WPC occured post june 2016 patch, where USF mortars were laser guided and penal flamers were the meta. If that is correct that'd explain the construction of t1.
23 May 2018, 19:55 PM
#67
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



IIRC WPC occured post june 2016 patch, where USF mortars were laser guided and penal flamers were the meta. If that is correct that'd explain the construction of t1.


It was mostly the clunkiness of camouflage from soviet snipers relegating them to been "ambushers" who needed to prep a position in order to counter snipe as opposed to camo on the move. That in combination with 15f 222, which while been even crappier as AI, would provide enough deterrent to T1 play.
24 May 2018, 08:26 AM
#68
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Proposal: 2 model recon squad something like pathfinder. vet 1 allows for a snipe ability like the the AA campagn but maybe a small amount of suppression. main role is recon type abilities. Flares, maybe a scout option (lock down when in Camo, provides improved Los and deception of camod units on the mini map) can build the blind from Soviet campagn.

Not a traditional sniper, but still unique and fills a unique role. Acts as a force multiplier and still synergies well with the Soviet roster from the maxim to artillery. Double sniper won't be forcing retreats on OST squads but will be punishing if left unchecked.



IMO all snipers should work like this, being force multipliers (by recon) instead of terminators. Steady damage-over-time with accurate rifle fire and maybe a snipe ability with munitions for when you really need to win a certain fight. Passive recon abilities that synergise with the rest of the army.

I would personally even go as far as to make recon a fundamental part of gameplay, with regular units having bad view range and needing recon units to function at full capacity. Like Wargame / Steel Division. But that's such a big change that it would be something for CoH3.
24 May 2018, 18:36 PM
#69
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 868 | Subs: 5




IMO all snipers should work like this, being force multipliers (by recon) instead of terminators. Steady damage-over-time with accurate rifle fire and maybe a snipe ability with munitions for when you really need to win a certain fight. Passive recon abilities that synergise with the rest of the army.

I would personally even go as far as to make recon a fundamental part of gameplay, with regular units having bad view range and needing recon units to function at full capacity. Like Wargame / Steel Division. But that's such a big change that it would be something for CoH3.


Reading your post, I was JUST going to suggest NSD44 :)
Amazing game. I play it a lot lately <444>3
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