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SBP Change Notes

17 May 2018, 14:58 PM
#1
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

I've put together some change notes from SBP's first draft to the final notes.

UPDATED WITH HOTFIX NOTES 18/05/2018

This is a comparison to SBP's first draft, not to DBP. For the full patch notes see this link:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/244965/spring-update-balance-preview-changelog/p1?new=1

(Addition) means this change wasn't in SBP v1, the first draft.
(Reversion) means this is undoing a change SBP v1 made.
(Clarification) means this is unchanged from SBP v1 but wasn't explained properly in SBP v1.

General Mortar Changes
  • 10% damage reduction versus squads in yellow cover removed. (Reversion)
  • "Building AOE damage equalized to 1 at all ranged" removed. (Reversion)
  • Standardization of minimum range to 30 removed. (Reversion)

General Sniper Changes
  • Retreat received accuracy modifier from 0.4 to 0.65 change removed. (Reversion)
  • Ready aim time from 1 to 1.5 changed removed. (Reversion)

OKW
  • Sturmtiger
    - All changes removed. (Reversion)

  • Volksgrenadier Flame Grenades
    - Now requires a truck on the field. Does not require it to be set up. (Partial Reversion)

  • Valiant Assaukt
    - Now has a 120 second cooldown instead of 60. (Addition)

  • Le.IG 18
    - Smoke barrage maximum range changed to 25 (min) - 125 (max). (Partial Reversion)
    - SBP v1: 25 (min) - 100 (max), DBP: 35 (min) - 150 (max).

  • Sturmpioneers
    - Stun Grenade damage increased to 10. (Partial Reversion)
    - SBP v1: 5 damage, DBP: 40 damage. Elite Troops Stun Grenades still do 5 damage.

OST
  • Hull Down
    - Reload bonuses are removed, range bonuses are not. (Clarification)

  • Panzergrenadiers
    - Smoke grenade removed. (Reversion)
    - Panzershreck accuracy increase removed. (Reversion)


  • Grw34 81mm Mortar
    - Veterancy 2 bonus to autoattack scatter removed. (Addition)

  • 222 Armored Car
    - SBP v1 armor increases removed. (Reversion)
    - Coaxial MG far accuracy increased from 0.27 to 0.32. (Addition)
    - 20mm main gun no longer creates light cover. (Addition)
    - Coaxial MG now obeys attack commands. (Addition)

  • Brummbar
    - SBP v1 changes (increased scatter) removed. (Reversion)
    - AOE distance changed from 1.25/2.5/3.75 to 0.625/1.25/6; applies to both auto-attack and bunker-buster. (Addition)
    - AOE damage changed from 1/0.3/0.05 to 1/0.35/0.2; applies to both auto-attack and bunker-buster. (Addition)

  • StuG G
  • SBP v1 changes (Vet 0 reload) removed. (Reversion)
  • Reload from 3.5/4.5 to 4.5/5.5. (Addition)

  • Tiger Ace
  • Cost increased from 800 Manpower to 800 Manpower and 150 Fuel. (Addition)

USF
  • 81mm Mortar
    - Veterancy 2 auto-attack scatter bonus removed. (Addition)
    - AOE distance changed from 1/2/3 to 0.75/1.5/3 (Addition)

  • Pack Howitzer
    - Autoattack range change removed. (Reversion)
    - AOE damage changed from 1/0.25/0.1 to 0.85/0.5/0.25. (Addition)

  • Jackson
    - Range reduction removed. (Reversion)

SOV
  • 82mm Mortar
    - Veterancy 2 auto-attack scatter bonus removed. (Addition)

  • IL-2 Loiter
    - Loiter time reduction by 3 seconds removed. (Reversion)

  • SU-76
    - SBP v1 changes (penetration and accuracy) removed. (Reversion)
    - Reload time increased from 2.9/3.4 to 3.9/4.4. (Addition)
    - Barrage changed to match the ZiS gun's barrage. This includes the 35 munition cost. (Addition)

  • Guards Rifle Infantry
    - All changes but the pop cap increased removed. (Reversion)

  • Conscript PPSh Upgrade
    - Number of PPSh SMGs restored from 2 to 3. (Reversion)
    - PPSh upgrade cost increased from 40 munitions to 60 munitions. (Addition)

  • Tank Hunter Tactics
    - ML-20 to B4 swap removed. (Reversion)

  • Katyusha, ISU-152, Penal Battalion, SU-85
    - All changes to units have been removed from the patch. (Reversion)

UKF
  • HQ
    - Removed from patch: all teching costs restored to DBP values, AT Sections are affected by Bolster again. (Reversion)

  • PIATS
    - SBP v1 changes (increased accuracy) removed. (Reversion)

  • Universal Carrier
    - Cost changes removed.(Reversion)

  • Royal Engineers
    - Can now equip two Bren guns.(Addition)

  • Infantry Section, AVRE
    - All changes removed. (Reversion)
17 May 2018, 17:45 PM
#2
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 728

Dumb they took out the change of okw having to build a truck to use flame nades. Just retarded being able to have the best garrison clearer deniers in the game at the very start.
17 May 2018, 17:53 PM
#3
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

17 May 2018, 18:22 PM
#4
avatar of luvnest
Strategist Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1094 | Subs: 20

jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2018, 17:45 PMRocket
Dumb they took out the change of okw having to build a truck to use flame nades. Just retarded being able to have the best garrison clearer deniers in the game at the very start.


agreed, garrison/cover denier
17 May 2018, 18:36 PM
#5
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260



This would be a reversion, since the Jackson is keeping its 60 range. (thank god)


Guess who read the patchnotes backwards on that one.

Will correct.
17 May 2018, 19:32 PM
#6
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2018, 18:22 PMluvnest


agreed, garrison/cover denier


+1

In my personal "worst design in coh2 history" list, volksgrenadier flame nade is up there with flamethrower riflemen and snipers in m3s. And honestly, it doesn't really matter if okw needs a truck to get them or not. This ability should not be there in the first place, no matter the timing.
17 May 2018, 19:37 PM
#7
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Garrisons themselves are up there in my opinion.
17 May 2018, 19:41 PM
#8
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2018, 18:22 PMluvnest


agreed, garrison/cover denier

Yeah tbh, I never really bought into the "OKW needs them so they dont get screwed by early garrisons" argument. Around 80% of the time, thats not even how theyre used in the early game.
17 May 2018, 19:49 PM
#9
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2018, 19:37 PMLago
Garrisons themselves are up there in my opinion.


What is wrong with garrisons?

Let me quote myself, as this post seems to be on the topic:


I think the importance of building counters is largely overestimated in ballance discussions. People seem to expect countering better positioned opponent with only one squad and a cheap ability. That only supports blobbers more and more.

The truth is, that even though there are some units and abilities that excel against buildings, the game is designed so that you don't really need them to fight garrisons. There are multiple mechanics that support players fighting against garrisons:
1. Firepower of garrisoned squad depends on the number of windows. It is the attacking player that chooses the side, so it is safe to say that it is equal to the number of windows in a side that has least of them, varying from 0 to 2.
2. Garrisoned squad members have a chance o being hit that doesn't depend on their position inside building. That means you can hit them through the walls. Together with 1st point, it means full health squads closing to buildings often lose less models than the ones inside.
3. Finally, garrison cover is worse than green cover at ranges over 10. Which means, that if you put your men in cover nearby a house, they will win the fight sooner or later. The first point often can make that process even faster.

To conclude, good positioning and local numerical advantage are the main anti-garrison tools that every faction has at their disposal. Anything beyond this is a factional benefit and should not be considered as required for a faction to stay competitive.

Some of the ideas that came from that mindset were wery damaging to ballance of infantry engagements. A volk granade is a prime example of ability that completely breaks the rules of infantry combat for the sake of countering garrisons. All that while sturmpios with high dps have always done just find against them.
17 May 2018, 20:20 PM
#10
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

What is wrong with garrisons?


Conceptually? Nothing. Buildings make for good defensive positions. I've never liked their implementation though and cover negation not working both ways for them has always felt rather counterintuitive to me.
17 May 2018, 20:23 PM
#11
avatar of swordfisch

Posts: 138

So they finally realized nerfing Tommy cap speed, received accuracy, vet, squad sizes,brens AND increasing weapon rack fuel cost was going to make UKF obviously underpowered (especially when they still lack a snare, smoke or building clearance).

thank god for that, I still think AT tommies should have their upgrades back though. If pgrens shreks are getting a buff then it hardly makes sense at all when AT rifles are rather mediocre when actual tanks roll out.Same goes for PTRS deflection nerf.

17 May 2018, 20:25 PM
#12
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

That reminds me, I forgot the Panzergrenadier changes too. They're only getting the cost reduction: no panzershreck buffs or smoke grenade.
17 May 2018, 21:23 PM
#13
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2018, 20:20 PMLago


Conceptually? Nothing. Buildings make for good defensive positions. I've never liked their implementation though and cover negation not working both ways for them has always felt rather counterintuitive to me.


No cover negation for buildings might be counterintuitive but it is crucial to garrison design. This is becouse in general buildings don't give you combat advantages, at least compared to green cover. They give you smaller bonus than green cover and they also reduce your firepower. This is becouse they are supposed to slow down the advance of enemy forces. They have to give advantage up close though, as otherwise you would be able to run up to the building and overcome it in a matter of seconds. If that was the case, buildings would not be able to slow down enemy advance and thus would lose their sole purpose. That is why this somewhat counterintuitive mechanic is a must.
17 May 2018, 21:24 PM
#14
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 495 | Subs: 1

I think I would’ve rather seen a cost reduction to consript PPShs down to 20 or 30 and reduced to only 2 SMGs instead of 3 SMGs for 60. But that’s just my opinion.
17 May 2018, 21:59 PM
#15
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2018, 17:45 PMRocket
Dumb they took out the change of okw having to build a truck to use flame nades. Just retarded being able to have the best garrison clearer deniers in the game at the very start.


What are flamethrowers?

Also I'm disappointed to see that the Leigs inconsistent changes are not addressed. Other mortars are loosing vet 3 range bonus for a vet 3 scatter bonus, the Leig is loosing a vet 3 range bonus for a vet 5 scatter bonus, which is very hard to obtain vs vet 3 mortars, doubly so with OKW inflated vet costs.

Also the leigs veterancy is at this point been so torn apart and hacked togeather, it no longer makes sense and needs a rework.
17 May 2018, 22:18 PM
#16
avatar of #12345678

Posts: 69

jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2018, 18:22 PMluvnest


agreed, garrison/cover denier


+2, I think they should cut the throw distance of the lava grenade. Like the Molotov cocktail range.
18 May 2018, 02:06 AM
#17
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Flame nades should be on strums not the ever plentiful volks. Sturm should be the early game answer to garrisons. Give volks access the lave nade with the mp40 upgrade in firestorm.
18 May 2018, 04:14 AM
#18
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2098 | Subs: 2

OKW without nades would be a massive joke in team games. Flame nades do not kill anyone they force them to move which creates a scramble allowing OKW to have a chance against MGs. If anything, get rid of the nades that wipe a whole squad since there is a 4 second lag some games.

If a squad is in a building, they are not taking territory in a 1v1. That seems crucial. Squad in building = more resources for you. Comes down to map making so buildings are not on top of important points.
18 May 2018, 06:14 AM
#19
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3594 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2018, 04:14 AMRosbone
OKW without nades would be a massive joke in team games. Flame nades do not kill anyone they force them to move which creates a scramble allowing OKW to have a chance against MGs. If anything, get rid of the nades that wipe a whole squad since there is a 4 second lag some games.

If a squad is in a building, they are not taking territory in a 1v1. That seems crucial. Squad in building = more resources for you. Comes down to map making so buildings are not on top of important points.


Actually USF is a massive joke vs OKW flamnade. USF pickup an important building before you, just throw a flamnade, USF pick a cover before them, just throw a flamnade and rush with your SP.
18 May 2018, 06:38 AM
#20
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2018, 06:14 AMEsxile


Actually USF is a massive joke vs OKW flamnade. USF pickup an important building before you, just throw a flamnade, USF pick a cover before them, just throw a flamnade and rush with your SP.



*throws flame nade at cover USF Rifle is going to*
*moves sturms to other side of Green cover
*USF forced to retreat or #smoke and flank (which costs muni or to have a mortar on site)

TFW Ez game b/c USF is so flexible right?
Also I rly enjoy paying a heft 25 fuel to delay my tech so I cant counter tanks and blobs :snfPeter:
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