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Spring Update - Balance thread

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20 Apr 2018, 02:05 AM
#301
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2018, 01:20 AMLago


Overall I'd say this is a net buff to the Panther's survivability. There's undeniable value in the reliability of extra health and the armour reduction only cancels this out in very long engagements.


all those changes are basically shooting themselves in the foot. It's spinning around in circle.


Instead of a design shift, it's balance spinning around in circle.


https://www.coh2.org/topic/68895/re-evaluting-the-panther-s-range-and-hp

https://www.coh2.org/topic/69618/panther-should-be-slower-and-re-evaluating-medium-speed

a clear increase in durability in exchange for speed and range would have meant moving the panther in a clear direction toward being a brawler. You drive up to the enemy's face and get him in a slugging match.

(flanker avoid trading shots. brawler excel in trading shots).

a hp boost combined with an armor nerf undercut its own purpose.
20 Apr 2018, 02:08 AM
#302
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

The proposed vet 2 panther armor is set to match the penetration of a vet 3 jackson.

Vet 3 jackson will have 286 penetration at far range. (1.3 multiplier of 220) The vet 2 panther will have 286 armor.
20 Apr 2018, 02:09 AM
#303
avatar of ClassyDavid

Posts: 424 | Subs: 2

Also a big thing that would be great is a lockdown button for HMGs like AA Half tracks.
20 Apr 2018, 02:10 AM
#304
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

The proposed vet 2 panther armor is set to match the penetration of a vet 3 jackson.

Vet 3 jackson will have 286 penetration at far range. (1.3 multiplier of 220) The vet 2 panther will have 286 armor.


286/286 is 1 (100% chance to pen)
20 Apr 2018, 04:30 AM
#305
avatar of Sully

Posts: 390 | Subs: 2

Also a big thing that would be great is a lockdown button for HMGs like AA Half tracks.


+1
20 Apr 2018, 06:04 AM
#306
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1

Also a big thing that would be great is a lockdown button for HMGs like AA Half tracks.


Lockdown?
20 Apr 2018, 07:51 AM
#307
avatar of 0ld_Shatterhand
Donator 22

Posts: 194

Overall definitely a step into the right direction. Some things are questionable though.

Hull Down
To increase the usability of this ability, the following changes have been made
• Cast time from 15 secs to 7.5 secs
• Offensive bonuses removed (defensive bonuses remain)

What is the reasoning behind that change? And what counts as offensive here, the range buff? If so then the best thing about this ability is gone. I think just reducing cast time alone would be enough. You can hardly pull this off and its easily countered.

Snipers

Although I like the general idea that might be too much. I think nerfing the retreat received accuracy solves the biggest problem: not getting rewarded for a flank. I would revert the ready aim time increase and set the accuracy against building not to 100% but maybe around 75%.

Panther

Not really sure about this. First of the little accuracy buff doesn't warrant +10 fuel for the ostheer one and although swapping armour and health is a small survivability buff but that just means it spends more time repairing because of all the TD on the field. And with the pios repair speed whats gonna take ages.
The panther needs damage because for everything else the Ostheer has better options. Maybe some sort of passive ability that gives a bonus to damage for the first shot of every engagement etc. There are many threads out where who tackle this problem.

222

I don´t think buffing the 222 and reducing the price so heavily is good. If it kills snipers now reliably and survives a bit more its worth the 250 manpower.

Command Panzer 4

I understand the nerf, but maybe add something back to it byw vet? So its actually worth something to vet it up.

Katyusha

I don't think this is necessary. If I understand it correctly it only delays the second and third salvo. You already have enough time to retreat if you get caught by the first one.

SU-85
Focused Sight Ability
• Sight activation bonus applies with a delay of 5 seconds
• Speed penalties remain for 5 seconds after deactivation

The second one is good, rewards flanking more, the first one is too much. At most make it 2-3 sec to activate not 5.

Penal Battalions

The At Penals arent really good and making the AT satchel even worse is not something thats gonna help them. Maybe just reduce the damage and keep the range?

HQ
A number of British upgrades have been adjusted in their cost to better reflect their current value.
• Research Weapon Racks manpower cost reduced from 150 to 100
• Research Weapon Racks fuel cost increased from 15 to 25
• Bolster Infantry Squads manpower cost reduced from 150 to 125
• Bolster Infantry Squads manpower fuel cost increased from 35 to 40
• Bolster Infantry Squads no longer applies to AT Infantry Sections

Is that fuel nerf really necessary? I mean +10 fuel for the weapon racks? Seems excessive especially as IS early power and bren get nerfed. You already delay your Tanks massively if you go for all of them. And you need them against LMG grens.

BOIS Anti-Tank Infantry Sections

Too many nerfs here as well. Nerfing at nade range is all that's necessary.

M3 Resupply HT

Not neccessary. The halftrack already cost fuel (and not so little). So why should I ever bring it?

AEC - Treadshot Ability

Don´t think the ability needs another change in how it works, just nerf the actual stun. The 5 secs immobilisation is the problem, not the way you activate it.



20 Apr 2018, 08:21 AM
#308
avatar of capiqua
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 985 | Subs: 2

not implemented:
Stand Fast - Replaced with Sapper flamethrowers

missing in changuelog:
MortarUSF increased 240MP to 260MP
20 Apr 2018, 09:13 AM
#309
avatar of SweetrollNearTheDoor

Posts: 170 | Subs: 1

Also a big thing that would be great is a lockdown button for HMGs like AA Half tracks.


I wonder what happened to that manual reload button on units like MG's and Ostwind. Not sure if it was used in one of the unofficial balance mods or the previews. In any case it would definitely still be a welcomed QoL change.
A_E
20 Apr 2018, 13:24 PM
#310
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2439 | Subs: 6



I wonder what happened to that manual reload button on units like MG's and Ostwind. Not sure if it was used in one of the unofficial balance mods or the previews. In any case it would definitely still be a welcomed QoL change.


No the best would be automatic reread once out if combat for 20s
20 Apr 2018, 14:08 PM
#311
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2018, 13:24 PMA_E


No the best would be automatic reread once out if combat for 20s


IB4: what about pushing an MG, waiting for X amount of time it takes for automatic reload and then push again ?
20 Apr 2018, 14:10 PM
#312
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2018, 13:24 PMA_E


No the best would be automatic reread once out if combat for 20s


So the MG will be reloading right when the enemy is coming around the corner? No thanks. I'd rather have a manual button.
A_E
20 Apr 2018, 14:17 PM
#313
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2439 | Subs: 6



IB4: what about pushing an MG, waiting for X amount of time it takes for automatic reload and then push again ?




So the MG will be reloading right when the enemy is coming around the corner? No thanks. I'd rather have a manual button.


Good points what about automatic reload if out of combat and under 20% of drum remaining.

And manual reload also available!

20 Apr 2018, 14:22 PM
#314
avatar of Luciano

Posts: 712

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2018, 08:21 AMcapiqua
not implemented:

missing in changuelog:


Like the thread says, changes are not final. Commander changes will be applied at the last moment.
20 Apr 2018, 17:38 PM
#315
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2018, 14:17 PMA_E




Good points what about automatic reload if out of combat and under 20% of drum remaining.

And manual reload also available!



In an ideal world:

Manual reload with autocast ala Warcraft 3. The best of both worlds.
20 Apr 2018, 19:54 PM
#316
avatar of ZaneyZap

Posts: 264

I'll just chip in my thoughts.

Stand Fast
The make this commander less situational, the following change has been made.
• Replaced with Sapper flamethrowers


Oh this I like. Good to see more commanders with flamers.

POPULATION CHANGES


Need some before stats. but I hope it will allow OKW to field more units.

MORTAR CHANGES


okay I guess.

Pack Howitzer


Good to see.

3inch Mortar


Good to see it will be cheaper. A little bit concerned about the reduced barrage cooldown.

Volksgrenadiers

Not so sure about this change. Maybe change it to having called a truck in.

SNIPERS


Very excited about these changes. The 1 model SU-sniper is huge :clap:

Maybe it would be worth giving the UC and SU-scout car a bonus vs snipers aswell.


PANTHERS

I'm interested in seeing how the panther will performe now. The fuel price seems a bit too steep.


222 Armored Car


Loving the armor buff.

Panzergrenadiers


I wonder why they were given smoke. I welcome the accuracy buff on the Panzerschreck . I am a bit worried about the lowered price on the Panzerschrecks

Brummbar


I don't know (as in I really don't know) how these changes can help it push back multible squads back while the squad wiping potential has been reduced.

Conscript PPSh


I really hate playing vs a blob of cons with PPSHs, yet I wonder if it would had been better to simply raise the price, like to ~100 munitions. To prevent a sudden power boost across the board.

Guards


3 CPs, sound good.

IL-2 Loiter


I welcome the nerf.

Tank Hunters Doctrine


Oh yes, more nukes! :crazy:

Sturmpioneers


Who thought this needed to be changed? Seems odd to be, but eh...

Panzer II Luchs


SoundsGood

Universal Carrier


I like the armor nerf.

Cromwell


Nice

20 Apr 2018, 21:48 PM
#317
avatar of gandamula

Posts: 62

Each change they made less pleasure I have playing this game, at least as OKW, nothing improved this faction.
21 Apr 2018, 02:57 AM
#318
avatar of thomasagray

Posts: 135

Permanently Banned
My changes I want (some are middle grounds between before and after December Patch):

General:
Munitions and Fuel Caches cost 200 manpower if the are no other caches of your own constructed or going to be constructed. Else, 250 manpower. This encourages players to choose a important sector to secure easily and helps guard against early territory raids. It is also a middle ground between pre and post December balance patch.

Abandoned: Vehicles that take a hit that results in abandoned now show "Abandoned" instead of Destroyed engine. Vehicles still suffer from destroyed engine.

AI Volksgrenadiers: they now will use incendiary grenades on troop clusters or garrisoned infantry.
AI British Infantry Sections: they now will construct caches when not active in the frontline.

Soviet
Conscripts: can once again pick up 2 heavy weapons on the ground.
Penal Battalions: can upgrade with a flamethrower for 60 munitions. Requires Mechanized Armor Kampenya and is mutually exclusive from the AT rifle package. Does not grant anti-vehicle satchel charges. This give the unit late-game deployment flexibility.
T-34/76 and T-34/85 Ramming Ability: at veterancy 1, ramming causes heavy engine damage instead of immobilization. At veterancy 2 and 3, it causes gunner injured instead of main gun destroyed. This makes it more appealing to use ramming maneuvers with experienced tanks.
Katyusha: Health increased to 200, armor remains the same. Makes it slightly less vulnerable to ambushes and counterattacks.

Wehrmacht
Ostruppen: Cost increased to 240 manpower & 7 population and health increased to match Soviet conscripts.
Panzerwerfer: Health increased to 200, armor remains the same. Makes it slightly less vulnerable to ambushes and counterattacks.

USF
Riflemen: Can construct sandbags at any time, no longer requires defensive operations. This is to compensate for the fact that most basic troops of other factions can lay sandbags.
Defensive Operations: Sandbag construction bonus removed because Riflemen always have it. Instead, Rear Echelon troops can lay M3 anti-tank mines.
M36 Jackson Tank Destroyer: Health reduced to 560 and cost reduced to 380 manpower and 135 fuel and 14 population. This returns it a support role but still leaves it less fragile than before December Patch. Basically a middle ground pre and post patch.
M26 Pershing: Veterancy 1 unlocks self-repair (replaces improved acceleration). Spend 45 munitions to carry out repairs, slowly restoring health for 15 seconds. During that time, it can move but it cannot fire its weapons. Similar to an ability once used by the T-70, this is to compensate for the Pershing's lack of disembarkable crew.
M3 Halftrack: cost to call in reduced to 270 manpower and 30 fuel.

OKW
Sturmpioneer combat package: requires at least one command HQ structure set up.
Volksgrenadiers: Rifle smoke grenade ability, costs 25 munitions. Requires Schwerer Panzer HQ.
Kubelwagens are more vulnerable to certain mines so now they can be on shot by non-anti-personnel mines. This makes mines more effective a deterrence against Kubelwagen raiders.
Walking Stuka Halftrack: Health increased to 200, armor remains the same. Makes it slightly less vulnerable to ambushes and counterattacks.
Walking Stuka: HEAT Shells from elite armor doctrine grants it HEAT rocket creeping barrage. A narrower line with lower area of effect but better armor penetration and a chance to cause engine damage per rocket. Costs 60 munitions.

British:
Royal Engineers: can help with the construction of munitions and fuel caches, but cannot lay caches.
Hammer tactics: infantry sections and engineers can no longer repair sandbags.
21 Apr 2018, 07:13 AM
#319
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



Abandoned: Vehicles that take a hit that results in abandoned now show "Abandoned" instead of Destroyed engine. Vehicles still suffer from destroyed engine.

And what would be the point of that?
Abandoned vehicles are quite... obvious.
21 Apr 2018, 09:17 AM
#320
avatar of RifleMan

Posts: 52

222s will rape everyone in the ass now early game, especially brits, i dont get this buff at all.

katyusha - why was this nerf exactly needed? It was balanced already.

PPsh change - upgrading cons to ppsh will now seem to be shooting myself in the foot now, better replace this upgrade with some other weapon.


ptrs change - why nerf this shitty AT even more?

The rest of changes I like, but these ones seem to be unneeded
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