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Spring Update - Balance thread

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18 Apr 2018, 02:18 AM
#21
avatar of dbmb

Posts: 122 | Subs: 2

Initial reactions from reading:

  • 222 overbuffed. All it needed was a boost to anti-sniper capability, which it got elsewhere
  • BOIS Anti-Tank Infantry Sections overnerfed. Lower squad size and no upgrades makes them dead weight
  • 6 pounder nerf was completely unnecessary
  • Lower cap speed + increased fuel squad size for Infantry Squads feels like an overnerf
  • Emplacements are probably useless with the new anti-building mortars
  • 1.5 accuracy multiplier vs snipers should be applied to bren, scout car, and kubel if it hasn't been already



18 Apr 2018, 03:19 AM
#22
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 337

Err This
Pack Howitzer
The pack howitzer has been adjusted to be more affordable and effective at barraging defensive positions; its barrage range has been reduced to make it more vulnerable to pushes.
• Auto-attack range changed to 80


Normally Their Range on 80
not thing change

----------
And
M20 still not change Sadly T-T
18 Apr 2018, 03:51 AM
#23
avatar of Sully

Posts: 344 | Subs: 2

The only reason to bother with hull down are the offensive buffs to range/ROF. Lowering the setup time by 7.5 seconds is not enough to make up for losing that.

At the very least let tanks initiate the ability without the need for pios/grens to be nearby. Better yet, let non-turreted tanks rotate even a little while hulled down so it's not a total downgrade.
18 Apr 2018, 04:07 AM
#24
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 233

The Soviet sniper change to me seems very undesirable now. Not only is it just worst than the others, because it's now symmetrical and boring.
18 Apr 2018, 04:17 AM
#25
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4105 | Subs: 1



Because factions are different. Soviet t1 is made to be aggressive, it doesn't meant to be defensive. While ostheer has supperior support weapons early on, soviet in t1 have superior inf and attack capabilities. If ostheer has sniper you can try to revial it with your scout car, ostheer has no light armor until t2 to chase your sniper, as Soviet you can have it strate of the bat.

Ost sniper meant most of the time to weak the offense, Soviet sniper is meant to weak the defense, while your troops are attacking.

But if you REALLY want an mg to cover your sniper, you always can pick commander with dshk machine gun.

Not to mention that ostheer mortar got nerfed which means that Soviet early inf play become a bit easier.

they are different, soviet has always lacked offensive capability in favor of durability in their infantry and vice versa for tanks. the soviet sniper has LITERALLY no advantage over any other sniper. the only thing halfway interesting is flares, which you can get on a mortar without vet and it has the added benifit of being able to smoke things and wipe squads. for cheaper. and more durable. like LITERALLY no reason to EVER EVER EVER get the soviet sniper unless you are trolling. they could swap it with the M42 AT gun and IT would get more use than the new sniper will because it would at least have some job in fighting the newly buffed 222 without having to get guards or neuter your penals and when a unit looks bad next to the m42 AT gun there is a problem....

i suppose the next step is increasing the price of the t34 to the same as the p4 and cromwell with no other changes because theres and su85 and katy in the tier?
18 Apr 2018, 04:21 AM
#26
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930


they are different, soviet has always lacked offensive capability in favor of durability in their infantry and vice versa for tanks. the soviet sniper has LITERALLY no advantage over any other sniper. the only thing halfway interesting is flares, which you can get on a mortar without vet and it has the added benifit of being able to smoke things and wipe squads. for cheaper. and more durable. like LITERALLY no reason to EVER EVER EVER get the soviet sniper unless you are trolling. they could swap it with the M42 AT gun and IT would get more use than the new sniper will because it would at least have some job in fighting the newly buffed 222 without having to get guards or neuter your penals

i suppose the next step is increasing the price of the t34 to the same as the p4 and cromwell with no other changes because theres and su85 and katy in the tier?


traditionally the soviet lack offensive capability in favor of durability.

yet the su-85 is now one of the hardest hitting and fastest firing unit in the game. The penal unit is one of the best long range fighter in the game as well as having good durability as well.

mortar flare also allow katyusha to wipe german unit with impunity.

it disappoint me that the patch further double down on turning the jackson into a brawler.
18 Apr 2018, 04:23 AM
#27
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1304

Will wait QoL anf UI fix section for this patch. And this list still actual -
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions

Penals vet 1 abillity doesn't shown as active like here (from abillity guide):


Moreover, it should be shown like USA radionet abillity.


According to abillity guide:

If i understood it correctly, max multiplier is 5 due to penals can't lose more then 5 models without losing the squad.

I think they can use this unused icon from the gamefiles for unclickable button on the bottom right abillity bar (at the moment they use icon from For Mother Russia abillity):


And these edited icons for top left corner of penals portrait:


Finally, i have edited one unused icon from gamefiles for penals AT-Sathcel (at the moment it use AEC treadshot icon):


Also, why not to give Shermans unclickable button on botton right abillity bar for their vet 1 abillity (edited by me, but maybe this icon without numbers already exist in the gamefiles):





Some suggestions for hotfix:

New version of assault airborne more works as Stuka CAS, so, it needs to get more fitable icon:
---->
Name in the gamefiles: Icons_commander_cmdr_german_stuka_close_air_support

Flammen + MP40 Doctrinal Icon:

It is just better, than current one (current one created by me, this one created by Kasarov)

WC 51 and M8 Greyhound using wrong icon for M2HB upgrade.
Right one called: Icons_upgrades_icon_upgrade_aef_50_cal_machine_gun


leIG 18 incendiary barrage doesn't have proper icon. I have made is by myself:

It should be used for leig abillity and for doctrine abillity icon.
Due to standartisation leIG should use:
For standart barrage: Icons_abilities_ability_aef_m8a1_artillery_barrage
For Smoke barrage (already using): Icons_abilities_ability_aef_m8a1_smoke_barrage
For incendiary barrage: new one
And it will looks like this:


Proper KV-8 icon


Proper icon for Ostheer Resource Opel Blitz


Proper icon for OKW Opel Blitz Ammotruck


Correct icon for Combat group of paratroopers (USF)
or



So, here is some ideas and suggestions for next patch:

Icons and shieldsymbols from the game files





General UI suggestions



Artillery barrage icon standartisation
For these suggestion you neet to use only 6 icons



Shell icons standartisation




18 Apr 2018, 04:59 AM
#28
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15475 | Subs: 7



Because soviets have penals and clown car in the same tier, not to mention that you are fighting 4\5 men squads. The fact that soviets could have used sniper as a frontline unit without counter play, was a disign flow.

And ost have PaK in the same tier as PGs and shrecks, yet shrecks got buff.
Also, ost sniper fights against 4/5 men squads as well, so your argument is irrelevant.

Also british sniper, is not ost clone stats vise, and ost sniper is better, but for some reason its still very usefull, dont see any reason why soviet sniper would become useless with 1 model, considering his stats got buffed in return.

I wonder if lack of actually meaningful and impactful vet1 ability will have something to do with it.

Now, I am not 100% sold on making TD have massive pop and therefore upkeep to keep them from being spammed a correct way to go. 15-16 pop per TD pretty much soft "hardcaps" it to 1 and if you want 2, you will never afford pop for any other armor.
18 Apr 2018, 05:43 AM
#29
avatar of Mcq_knight

Posts: 43



healing 3 squads (now more) without impacting field presence is a bad thing? just because you dont like them doesnt mean they are trash...


Well this is a big nerf, if you knew the “exploit.” Stacking units inside medpack radius will heal em all in one use. Whole armies.

Now you pay more and only single use. Love it as is really.

ALSO.... still no su76 barrage cost? Damn even 10-15mun but free is ohpee
18 Apr 2018, 05:45 AM
#30
avatar of Yossarian

Posts: 70

Still no fix to Bofors AA?
18 Apr 2018, 05:50 AM
#31
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 997 | Subs: 2



Well this is a big nerf, if you knew the “exploit.” Stacking units inside medpack radius will heal em all in one use. Whole armies.

Now you pay more and only single use. Love it as is really.

It's still 3 medkits in the stack, just now 45 munis instead of 30, and healing in an aoe. With them now actually being intended as aoe heals, they need a new cost, and you have to start "somewhere". 45 seems like that "somewhere".
18 Apr 2018, 06:07 AM
#32
avatar of CartoonVillain

Posts: 459

OKW
Volksgrenadiers
Flame Grenade
• Now requires any completed HQ building

What is the point of this???
Wasn't this change added and reverted several times now? Why are they bringing it back? It's not only taking away from OKW's already crap ability to deal with early garrisons, but it also forces people even more to go for the med HQ since you always want flame nades ASAP.
18 Apr 2018, 06:30 AM
#33
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2841 | Subs: 1

222 Armored Car
The 222 is receiving a cost and armor adjustment to make it more viable early-mid game and easier to replace in the later stages should it be destroyed.
• Manpower cost reduced from 250 to 200
• Front armour increased from 9 to 14
• Rear armour increased from 4.5 to 7


M20 dead. Hell even the M15 is probably dead now.


But that's not a problem, seeing the direction of sniper changes, i'll probably stop to play soon after the release. Company of Sniper 2.
18 Apr 2018, 06:53 AM
#34
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1967

OKW
Volksgrenadiers
Flame Grenade
• Now requires any completed HQ building

What is the point of this???
Wasn't this change added and reverted several times now? Why are they bringing it back? It's not only taking away from OKW's already crap ability to deal with early garrisons, but it also forces people even more to go for the med HQ since you always want flame nades ASAP.


because the mods are hate volks...
18 Apr 2018, 07:12 AM
#35
avatar of SweetrollNearTheDoor

Posts: 147

One thing I'm noticing is the absence of triple nerfs to a unit while the intended counters get a triple buff. This is a very good thing in my book and these unusually modest changes seem very reasonable.

Perhaps one of the best changes is the damage modifier on yellow cover, I hope I understood the notes correctly and that one should no longer lose a full health squad due to clumping if a mortar gets a bullseye hit. Overall I like the toning down of indirect fire and more emphasis on micro and not parking units and forgetting them there.

Also the OKW popcap changes seem very welcome.

Most of the current balance gripes seem covered. The only thing I might want to see is the addition of more reliable anti air for Ostheer, since Ostwind seems to be the least reliable AT platform due to its lower RoF and pintle mounts aren't too reliable either. That seems like a smaller priority now that Allied skill planes will get toned down.

Overall impression: Credit where credit is due so good job balance team on these new less radical changes and any patch that removes the house entering dance is a change for the better.
18 Apr 2018, 07:17 AM
#36
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 1803 | Subs: 1

I really disagree with the Soviet sniper change.

I know it's a pain, but it's counterable. The 1v1 game is going to turn into COH1 where every game was won or lost on the counter snipe. Standardizing snipers vs garrisons is another major stupid change. The sniper game in COH1 killed that game for most people, including me. You didn't have the sniper micro of a top player? Kthxbye, you have no chance to succeed at the game. I don't want to play Company of Snipers 2.

A lot of the other changes are fine, especially to mortars, but really this game is going symmetrical, which is just lazy game design.

Generally, if you like Ostheer, well, here's your patch. Ostheer finally OP.




thank you
18 Apr 2018, 07:23 AM
#37
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 899

Well, I guess I'll say it:

Sov sniper change is the best change in years - I've literally been asking for it since before release. The two model squad was inherently imbalance since it resulted in sniper wars favoring one side massively, when it should always have been a contest of skill.

That said, I think the accuracy vs. buildings should have been standardized to 50%, not 100%. Being able to drain MP that fast from buildings will really change how some maps play out, since early MG placement won't require a bunch of mortars/smoke/nades/flanking to counter.


The other changes seem pretty decent, but I'll wait to try them - especially the massive changes to mortars.

18 Apr 2018, 07:32 AM
#38
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 1803 | Subs: 1

if you change mortar pit like that it will be seen in every game and will kill 2v2 single-handedly
18 Apr 2018, 07:45 AM
#39
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4105 | Subs: 1



traditionally the soviet lack offensive capability in favor of durability.

yet the su-85 is now one of the hardest hitting and fastest firing unit in the game. The penal unit is one of the best long range fighter in the game as well as having good durability as well.

mortar flare also allow katyusha to wipe german unit with impunity.

it disappoint me that the patch further double down on turning the jackson into a brawler.


durability was never really a trait of soviet stock armour, its always been squishy, for the most part heaping trash as well as being squishy (its been a long road from "you need at least 4 t34s to take on a p4, and you MUST ram it to do so")
both units you mentioned as going against the trend i would argue are over performing- su85 got too much pen increase (AND that massive 30% pen at vet2) and penals really should have to buy their SVTs to stop insta domination

even more reason to get a mortar over a sniper, less upkeep more contribution and synergy with an actual army instead of being a no trick pony

i also agree that the jacksons new role is wrong. i wish they had just kept the old jackson and swapped it with the M10 if they wanted a non doc brawler. the current M10 suits the current USF far more anyways. now its like having a non doc t34/85 with a doctrinal t34/76 or a non doc zis gun and a doctrinal M42
18 Apr 2018, 07:47 AM
#40
avatar of Luciano

Posts: 712

Can someone enlighten me if the Soviet Sniper will now be a 1:1 (minus incendiary shot) with the Wehrmacht one?

The numbers don't really mean anything to me without a base of reference, and often enough saying "x was increased from 1.2 to 1.5" doesn't let me know if that means the unit is stronger or weaker as I'm not sure if the numbers means it takes more time or less time to do something.


Here you have a dps calculator made by cruzz, it has some stats https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
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