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russian armor

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9 Dec 2017, 09:12 AM
#1281
avatar of Antemurale
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 951

The KV-1 was already a very capable answer to everything in Ostheer T3; now it will be even better.



What does 'Now has a received damage modifier of 0.8'' mean?


This means that a regular Pak, StuG, Panther, Tiger shot that deals 160 dmg will only deal 128 (160*0.8). A 300 dmg Elefant and Jagdtiger do only 240 dmg to the KV-1.

Gameplay implications? Against 160-dmg anti-armor weapons, a KV-1 would die in 6.25 (7) shots. Originally, a 960HP KV-1 would die in 6 shots.

With a received damage modifier of 0.8, an 800HP KV-1 would have 1000 effective HP (800/0.8). Think of it like the KV-1 has a permanent Command P4 buff applied to it.

Essentially, although it only has 800HP, the KV-1 is going to be an epic damage sponge.
9 Dec 2017, 09:14 AM
#1282
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1



What does 'Now has a received damage modifier of 0.8'' mean?


Mirage can correct me if I'm wrong but it means KV1 takes 80% of damage that it normally would. For example PAK shot would normally do 160 but instead does 128.

It does a couple of things for KV1 - it has less HP so it repairs to full faster but it also has more effective HP (I assume) since it will now take 6.25 shots to kill instead of 6 flat.
9 Dec 2017, 09:47 AM
#1283
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 366

Yeah, that receive damage modifier is very nice, I still think it could have a slight mg buff through but thats a nice buff.

Probably coming later but are the vet one abilities going to change on the Soviet heavy tanks at lease?
9 Dec 2017, 10:03 AM
#1284
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Changelog for 2.0 since it was not posted


Luchs

-Build time increased from 40 seconds to 85 seconds



Woah woah woah. More than double the build time of a unit this late into the balance patch iterations? What is the reason to more than double the build time?
9 Dec 2017, 10:05 AM
#1285
avatar of aomsinzana

Posts: 284 | Subs: 1

^
Eliminate Lusch rush meta FeelsGoodMan.
9 Dec 2017, 10:29 AM
#1286
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

Changelog for 2.0 since it was not posted

General changes

Airplane loiters

-Standardized loiter duration (60 secs) and radius (50)

Soviets

ML-20

-Near AoE damage reduced from 1 to 0.9

KV1

-hitpoints reverted from 960 to 800
-Now has a received damage modifier of 0.8

Wehrmacht

G43 upgrade (Stormtroopers only)

-Stormtrooper G43 upgrade reverted to 2xG43’s (does not affect Panzergrenadiers)

OKW

Squad XP Value
To normalise the XP value for OKW squads (i.e,. How much XP enemy units gain from attacking OKW squads), the OKW units that have had their performance adjusted no longer award additional veterancy when transitioning from Veterancy 4 to Veterancy 5.

Luchs

-Build time increased from 40 seconds to 85 seconds

Command Panther

-Now requires 12 CP

Bugfixes/QoL
-Fixed an issue where Command Panther/Pershing would award less experience than implied by their call-in costs
-Prevented players from using Artillery Officer victor target when no candidate units are on the field
-Fixed an issue where several squads would experience random delays when throwing their grenades (mostly affects SMG troops, e.g., panzergrenadiers). Credits go to Widerstreit for finding the fix


yeah..pls more nerf for axis..why not... Oo
9 Dec 2017, 11:21 AM
#1287
avatar of Oddworld

Posts: 9

I think the problem is that the KV-1 is terrible in both AT and AI.
Why not increase a little the performance of his turret MG or hull MG ?
Something like rate of fire and accuracy, so he could be usefull and more consistent in his AI role.
9 Dec 2017, 11:54 AM
#1288
avatar of AceOfTitanium

Posts: 162

It sounds better but still doesn't change the fact that KV1 has no purpose and it's most indistinct tank in game. To give it some purpose I'd add smoke ability or something else to support advancing infantry because it's still way worst than Churchill while being doctrinal and cost only 15F less.


Kv1's purpose is to counter medium tank's because of it's armor but be countered heavier tanks like panther and so on. At least that's what the sweetspot for the kv1 should be.
Maybe the churchill is a bit too good, just saying :D
9 Dec 2017, 12:25 PM
#1289
avatar of Fantomasas

Posts: 122



Kv1's purpose is to counter medium tank's because of it's armor but be countered heavier tanks like panther and so on. At least that's what the sweetspot for the kv1 should be.
Maybe the churchill is a bit too good, just saying :D


Both Churchill and KV1 don't really have a place in the game. Churchill might counter P4 in like 8-10 shots, because the front armor of Axis tanks is too tough for KV1/Churchill to penetrate reliably.

Churchill and KV1 are just the heavy version of Panzer IV without the mobility or the same anti-infantry firepower. Their weapons are only reliable against light and rear armor, so not really useful due to their movement speed.

Paks, stugs, panzerjagers and raketens just farm veterancy on these tanks, the HP pool of churchill makes it slow to repair, where Soviets are slow at repairing large HP pools by default. Veterancy bonuses of these tanks don't give them extra range, damage or pen, just the reload speed. So your heavy full vet tanks are still going to be useless against panthers and heavy axis tanks due to the low penetration. Even Brumbar with veterancy gets the armor bonuses to the point where you are better off shooting shells at infantry with your Churchill.

Plus your slow and short range (40) tanks will get fausted all the time making them even less useful in engages. Churchill has the vet 3 ability to repair the slow itself, but it is only useful if you run over a mine because the time to repair is 15 seconds.
9 Dec 2017, 12:26 PM
#1290
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

^
Eliminate Lusch rush meta FeelsGoodMan.

Unecessary/dangerous change, luchs timing makes it a risky investment already, it comes extremely close if not at the same time of its hardcounters, namely stuart and aec, and zooks/piats/ptrs/atg's comes much before.

Luchs meta was a consequence of mg34 being trash and med hq being even worse, both issues solved, i don't really get if this was simply a reactionary change against previous strats with no real purpose or what ?

I can't see luchs being that helpful/convinient if so much delayed, especially because you delay mg and more than all indirect fire to get it.
9 Dec 2017, 12:28 PM
#1291
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
It sounds better but still doesn't change the fact that KV1 has no purpose and it's most indistinct tank in game. To give it some purpose I'd add smoke ability or something else to support advancing infantry because it's still way worst than Churchill while being doctrinal and cost only 15F less.


+1
9 Dec 2017, 12:33 PM
#1292
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
Finally luchs change that stop this abuse.
9 Dec 2017, 13:51 PM
#1293
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



Woah woah woah. More than double the build time of a unit this late into the balance patch iterations? What is the reason to more than double the build time?
the rush , is fair so the oppnent can at least get a counter in time
9 Dec 2017, 13:54 PM
#1294
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

It sounds better but still doesn't change the fact that KV1 has no purpose and it's most indistinct tank in game. To give it some purpose I'd add smoke ability or something else to support advancing infantry because it's still way worst than Churchill while being doctrinal and cost only 15F less.
churchil is tier 4 kv 1 is not
9 Dec 2017, 13:59 PM
#1295
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

churchil is tier 4 kv 1 is not


KV1 is now tied to tech (T4)
9 Dec 2017, 14:02 PM
#1296
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



KV1 is now tied to tech (T4)
like the ost tier 4 right ? come on you know what i ninted is fuel cost not the tier it self soviet tier 4 is just other faction tier 3 and you know that
9 Dec 2017, 14:06 PM
#1297
avatar of KurtWilde
Donator 11

Posts: 440



Mirage can correct me if I'm wrong but it means KV1 takes 80% of damage that it normally would. For example PAK shot would normally do 160 but instead does 128.

It does a couple of things for KV1 - it has less HP so it repairs to full faster but it also has more effective HP (I assume) since it will now take 6.25 shots to kill instead of 6 flat.


I played with it and while it maybe able to soak up damage more, its essentially useless against anything
9 Dec 2017, 14:07 PM
#1298
avatar of KurtWilde
Donator 11

Posts: 440

like the ost tier 4 right ? come on you know what i ninted is fuel cost not the tier it self soviet tier 4 is just other faction tier 3 and you know that


Its a 145 fuel tank and it is tied to Soviet tier 4. What tier are you supposed to link it with
9 Dec 2017, 14:08 PM
#1299
avatar of AceOfTitanium

Posts: 162



Both Churchill and KV1 don't really have a place in the game. Churchill might counter P4 in like 8-10 shots, because the front armor of Axis tanks is too tough for KV1/Churchill to penetrate reliably.

Churchill and KV1 are just the heavy version of Panzer IV without the mobility or the same anti-infantry firepower. Their weapons are only reliable against light and rear armor, so not really useful due to their movement speed.

Paks, stugs, panzerjagers and raketens just farm veterancy on these tanks, the HP pool of churchill makes it slow to repair, where Soviets are slow at repairing large HP pools by default. Veterancy bonuses of these tanks don't give them extra range, damage or pen, just the reload speed. So your heavy full vet tanks are still going to be useless against panthers and heavy axis tanks due to the low penetration. Even Brumbar with veterancy gets the armor bonuses to the point where you are better off shooting shells at infantry with your Churchill.

Plus your slow and short range (40) tanks will get fausted all the time making them even less useful in engages. Churchill has the vet 3 ability to repair the slow itself, but it is only useful if you run over a mine because the time to repair is 15 seconds.


They do have place in the game, it's just not well defined or it's badly executed. I would rather for them to have the same HP pool as medium tanks but armor high enough to bounce quite a bit of medium tank shots and not bouce too much heavier tank shots.
This way a player would choose these tanks versus medium armor spam builds and give the axis player one more reason to go for panthers and heavier tanks (that are supposed to counter these tanks imo).
Note that these tanks aren't your typical fast moving flanking tank, these should be used to defend versus medium armor assaults and spearhead a push supported by infantry.
But I agree with you, their stats and vet should be looked at to fulfill this role.
9 Dec 2017, 14:09 PM
#1300
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

like the ost tier 4 right ? come on you know what i ninted is fuel cost not the tier it self soviet tier 4 is just other faction tier 3 and you know that


Get your facts staight. You said that Churchill is T4 while KV1 is not.

Now time for funny fact:
You need 660 MP + 195 fuel to unlock Churchill
You need 640 MP + 195 fuel to unlock KV1

Funny like fuel cost for Churchill and KV1 is excatly the same, aye?

Wanna more?
Ostheer T4 (afaik) costs 720 MP + 140 fuel
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