Login

russian armor

December Balance Preview

  • This thread is locked
PAGES (85)down
9 Dec 2017, 22:46 PM
#1321
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 580

Is anyone going to explain why the P2 deserves an 85 second build time where as all other light vehicles and light tanks float around 40 to 45.

For the record the king tiger has a build time of 90 seconds, its pritty ridiculous that a p2, which has very similar rush times vs say a Stuart or AEC (which cost about the same IIRC) should have the same build time as a King Tiger.

+1

I would have thought adjusting the units price or the tiers price would be a better solution. This would also eliminate lv spam.

Likewise for kubel. If kubel spam is problematic just increase the fuel cost. That way a meaningful decision is required. Ie do i spam kubels and delay Lv or do i skip kubel cheese and focus on lv.

So many things in this game could be fixed by adjusting cost alone instead of being overly clever and fiddling with unit stats and build times etc etc.
9 Dec 2017, 23:05 PM
#1322
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4306


+1

I would have thought adjusting the units price or the tiers price would be a better solution. This would also eliminate lv spam.

Likewise for kubel. If kubel spam is problematic just increase the fuel cost. That way a meaningful decision is required. Ie do i spam kubels and delay Lv or do i skip kubel cheese and focus on lv.

So many things in this game could be fixed by adjusting cost alone instead of being overly clever and fiddling with unit stats and build times etc etc.
if you dont change stats too then is useless thats how most unit became usless , too expensive for what they do
ex. if you attach fuel for the current kubel no one is gonna build it i assure you
9 Dec 2017, 23:09 PM
#1323
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

That luchs arrival time nerf seems way too hard. Especially for 2.0 possible final iteration of the preview. The issue with luchs as I see it currently is the perfect meta, as well as some faction design flaws.

Luchs runs rampant because 19/20 penals will not snare it, USF requires vet 1, which you may or may not have based on fighting, and UKF require the boys AT rifles. The luchs is an AI light tank, it is supposed to be strong vs infantry when used correctly.

Handheld AT bug is fixed, which will indirectly nerf all vehicles.

USF can go captain for an AT gun, or rely on zooks. UKF will always have access to the 6 pounder, even though they don't have snares. Soviets will now spam conscripts and probably go T2 for maxims and a zis. Cons also have AT nades and oorah.

Allies light vehicles can all deal with the luchs. And I mean every single one aside from the M5 meatgrinder. M20 mines, AAHT (difficult), stuart, AEC, T70, Su76.

The meta will soon shape to be able to counter the luchs more effectivly. So I don't think such a drastic change was needed last minute.

OKW currently crutches on mechanized to keep their momentum or you lose to the stronger infantry of the allies once they get upgraded and obers arrive to late. Maybe with the HMG34 buffs and LeIG rework it'll allow for med truck, but if it appears to be too weak OKW will be wiped from 1v1 ladder.

I agree with dangerous cloth. 60 seconds would have been a fine change if anything.
9 Dec 2017, 23:55 PM
#1324
avatar of CntoCa

Posts: 16

"Panzer II 'Luchs'
We want to delay the arrival time of the luchs, without delaying the arrival of the MechHQ building, or the cost-efficiency of the unit to prevent it from dominating the battlefield if rushed.

Build time increased from 40 seconds to 85 seconds"

Panzer II has been nerfed before and now it arrives 45seconds later, so what is the point to build panzer II.
10 Dec 2017, 01:55 AM
#1325
avatar of AceOfTitanium

Posts: 162

Am I the only one that feels that sturms are kinda too good now? Maybe they got overbuffed.
10 Dec 2017, 03:43 AM
#1326
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 337

I see OKW Flak Halftrack bug

setup meter not appear when parking
this bug appear when Flak halftrack got vet 2 (-33% Setup time)
but in dbp you move vet 2 to vet 0 bouns
why not change Setup time for 4 sec to 3 sec and remove Vet 2 (-33% Setup time) out
It very confuse for other player see Setup meter running but it fireing
to his soldier

At 14.10
10 Dec 2017, 03:46 AM
#1327
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 580

The luchs is an AI light tank, it is supposed to be strong vs infantry when used correctly.


The issue is not the performance of the luchs as an anti infantry unit. The issue is allies, usf especially do not have a suitable counter when the luchs arrives and as such the luchs can often just drive around almost uncontested.

The problem starts with the kubel, (sometimes multiple kubel) which not only gives okw the resource advantage through superior capping capability but also the added benefit of constantly decapping and/or cutting off allied factions. So okw can virtually tech straight to the luchs where usf is constantly being cut off and delayed. The situation is often made worse once the luchs arrives because usf has no hard counters, only soft counters, so okw can maintain the snowball effect while usf struggles to keep its head above water.

To the okw fanboys who wish to argue to the contrary, keep in mind it is not skill if you have an advantage.

The problem starts with the kubel, so to fix luchs rush the kubel needs to be adjusted. Personally i see 1 kubel as manageable but would like to see a nerf to its decapping speed(add it back later with vet if necessary). Secondly I would like to see a fuel cost added so that building more than one has real meaningful consequences if it goes sideways. It should not be possible to spam multiple kubels, only to lose them carelessly and then follow up with luchs spam. Its ridiculous.

To compensate for the fuel cost I would increase starting fuel to allow for one kubel, then increase the cost of t1, t2 and associated vehicles. This way building multiple kubels will delay light vehicles. The cost of vehicles could be adjusted depending on the desired arrival time.
10 Dec 2017, 05:41 AM
#1328
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



The issue is not the performance of the luchs as an anti infantry unit. The issue is allies, usf especially do not have a suitable counter when the luchs arrives and as such the luchs can often just drive around almost uncontested.

The problem starts with the kubel, (sometimes multiple kubel) which not only gives okw the resource advantage through superior capping capability but also the added benefit of constantly decapping and/or cutting off allied factions. So okw can virtually tech straight to the luchs where usf is constantly being cut off and delayed. The situation is often made worse once the luchs arrives because usf has no hard counters, only soft counters, so okw can maintain the snowball effect while usf struggles to keep its head above water.

To the okw fanboys who wish to argue to the contrary, keep in mind it is not skill if you have an advantage.

The problem starts with the kubel, so to fix luchs rush the kubel needs to be adjusted. Personally i see 1 kubel as manageable but would like to see a nerf to its decapping speed(add it back later with vet if necessary). Secondly I would like to see a fuel cost added so that building more than one has real meaningful consequences if it goes sideways. It should not be possible to spam multiple kubels, only to lose them carelessly and then follow up with luchs spam. Its ridiculous.

To compensate for the fuel cost I would increase starting fuel to allow for one kubel, then increase the cost of t1, t2 and associated vehicles. This way building multiple kubels will delay light vehicles. The cost of vehicles could be adjusted depending on the desired arrival time.


Zooks? m20 mines? AAHT? Stuart after like 2 minutes? Kubel is getting a respective armor nerf, which makes playing against them much more tolerable as USF
Phy
10 Dec 2017, 09:35 AM
#1329
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

Can we have a list with all the changes with last updates of DBP 2.0?
10 Dec 2017, 10:28 AM
#1330
avatar of ZaneyZap

Posts: 135

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Dec 2017, 09:35 AMPhy
Can we have a list with all the changes with last updates of DBP 2.0?


I think we'll get that soon, when the patch is released
10 Dec 2017, 10:40 AM
#1331
avatar of sherlock
Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Dec 2017, 09:35 AMPhy
Can we have a list with all the changes with last updates of DBP 2.0?


Here you go: https://www.coh2.org/topic/64970/december-balance-preview/post/643671
10 Dec 2017, 10:43 AM
#1332
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 392

I'm still holding on to hope that I can scuttle emplacements in the next patch. Much rather destroy my emplacements myself than let someone else do it for me.
10 Dec 2017, 10:46 AM
#1333
avatar of sherlock
Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1

I'm still holding on to hope that I can scuttle emplacements in the next patch. Much rather destroy my emplacements myself than let someone else do it for me.


Well, you can, but you need to dedicate some time and a tank or at gun ;)
10 Dec 2017, 10:54 AM
#1334
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1182



The issue is not the performance of the luchs as an anti infantry unit. The issue is allies, usf especially do not have a suitable counter when the luchs arrives and as such the luchs can often just drive around almost uncontested.

The problem starts with the kubel, (sometimes multiple kubel) which not only gives okw the resource advantage through superior capping capability but also the added benefit of constantly decapping and/or cutting off allied factions. So okw can virtually tech straight to the luchs where usf is constantly being cut off and delayed. The situation is often made worse once the luchs arrives because usf has no hard counters, only soft counters, so okw can maintain the snowball effect while usf struggles to keep its head above water.

To the okw fanboys who wish to argue to the contrary, keep in mind it is not skill if you have an advantage.

The problem starts with the kubel, so to fix luchs rush the kubel needs to be adjusted. Personally i see 1 kubel as manageable but would like to see a nerf to its decapping speed(add it back later with vet if necessary). Secondly I would like to see a fuel cost added so that building more than one has real meaningful consequences if it goes sideways. It should not be possible to spam multiple kubels, only to lose them carelessly and then follow up with luchs spam. Its ridiculous.

To compensate for the fuel cost I would increase starting fuel to allow for one kubel, then increase the cost of t1, t2 and associated vehicles. This way building multiple kubels will delay light vehicles. The cost of vehicles could be adjusted depending on the desired arrival time.

Ahahahahhahaha

Posts like this are the reason nobody has faith on humanity anymore

1) oh sure, piats/zooks/ptrs/snares/atg all coming before aren't counters, stuart and aec coming 2 min max after aren't counters, as well as t70 and aaht coming at the same time, so let's fu** even worse the timing, so nobody will ever use it anyway.

2) It's all about the goddam kubel, it's too OP, even after the armor nerf that made THE MOST UNARMORED vehicle in game weaker to simple small arms...let's nerf even more and add fuel cost to it, because people LOVE to spam and lose 210 mp vehicles with nonexistant dps...then buff the veterancy that even someone that never played okw (like you) knows kubel will never get at all, sonce the thing is goddam dead meat..

OR EVEN BETTER: let's make it an uc copypaste instead, THAT is balanced...=)
It will upgrade to suppress or flame stuff, and will transport squads..all with higher armor than it already has in live pre-nerf
10 Dec 2017, 11:22 AM
#1335
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 392



Well, you can, but you need to dedicate some time and a tank or at gun ;)

Indeed, this is true but breaks immersion too hard for my tastes. :P
10 Dec 2017, 12:14 PM
#1336
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



• 21% speed isn't nothing.
• 9% lower chance to hit from Pak40 isn't much, but that armor is more efficient against Panzer 4.
• Smoke is trash, it slows the unit and the smoke itself isn't even as big as USF canisters, the churchill takes some time to crawl into the smoke backwards. Churchill is a big and slow tank, it gets even slower in smoke and many players already know about attack ground option. You are better off not using smoke while retreating.
• Grenade is good.
• 40% Churchill HP isn't the gamechanger.
• 80MP/15 Fuel isn't that much of the cost difference, but it still something to consider.
• Churchill gets the extra repair ability where KV-1 gets the bonus +20% reload speed on Churchill.

You can buff KV-1 to the performance/price of Churchill, but both units are still going to struggle to find the place in the game. One Stug or Pak with faust squad is all you need to prevent the KV1/Churchill advance.

Perhaps there is a use-case scenario for 1vs1/2vs2 games where these tanks can be efficient at disrupting enemies, but 4vs4 it is a veterancy pinata with no firepower against Panther and up.


Of course they will struggle, becasue they are not supposed to be cost efficient alone. They need to work with other units. It's not like they are Tigers or Panthers.

Yet, I'd pick any day tank slower by 1.1 and with 30 less armor which has better gun, better MG, 1400 HP and support abilities for enormous 15F more ;)
10 Dec 2017, 13:25 PM
#1337
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2032

That luchs arrival time nerf seems way too hard. Especially for 2.0 possible final iteration of the preview. The issue with luchs as I see it currently is the perfect meta, as well as some faction design flaws.

Luchs runs rampant because 19/20 penals will not snare it, USF requires vet 1, which you may or may not have based on fighting, and UKF require the boys AT rifles. The luchs is an AI light tank, it is supposed to be strong vs infantry when used correctly.

Handheld AT bug is fixed, which will indirectly nerf all vehicles.

USF can go captain for an AT gun, or rely on zooks. UKF will always have access to the 6 pounder, even though they don't have snares. Soviets will now spam conscripts and probably go T2 for maxims and a zis. Cons also have AT nades and oorah.

Allies light vehicles can all deal with the luchs. And I mean every single one aside from the M5 meatgrinder. M20 mines, AAHT (difficult), stuart, AEC, T70, Su76.

The meta will soon shape to be able to counter the luchs more effectivly. So I don't think such a drastic change was needed last minute.

OKW currently crutches on mechanized to keep their momentum or you lose to the stronger infantry of the allies once they get upgraded and obers arrive to late. Maybe with the HMG34 buffs and LeIG rework it'll allow for med truck, but if it appears to be too weak OKW will be wiped from 1v1 ladder.

I agree with dangerous cloth. 60 seconds would have been a fine change if anything.


I agree with this. The only faction that really struggles against Luchs rush is Soviets. But the Soviet´s just got better Guards, better Cons and also better PTRS rifles in general so I think they would have been ok. If the Luchs gets delayed then maybe some minor DPS buffs would have been a good idea. Then again facing Luchs rush in every game vs. OKW was very very annoying so I wont complain.

10 Dec 2017, 13:37 PM
#1338
avatar of RussianHamster

Posts: 88

I still dont understand why you nerf OKW so much. I played few game again, today and i dont know, how to win a mid game as OKW. Vet volks with STG and vet Falls losing to cons with PPSH with no chanses to win, i think its ridiculously.
Really guys, if the patch will be released in the current version, then no one will play as OKW.
OKW need a HMG in T1 without T2/T3 or inf buff or something another, idk.
10 Dec 2017, 13:59 PM
#1339
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

I still dont understand why you nerf OKW so much. I played few game again, today and i dont know, how to win a mid game as OKW. Vet volks with STG and vet Falls losing to cons with PPSH with no chanses to win, i think its ridiculously.
Really guys, if the patch will be released in the current version, then no one will play as OKW.
OKW need a HMG in T1 without T2/T3 or inf buff or something another, idk.


It has nothing to do with current DBP. It's a design flaw. OKW has huge gap between early and mid game. Once you get Luchs, you need another 285 fuel to get PzIV, while USF, after getting Stuart need 230F to get Sherman. It's been like this since forever, that's why Ostwinds are so often used becasue they fill somehow this mid game gap. If you have big fuel advantage, it's not a big deal, but if a game is even or just slightly in your favour, no matter what, as OKW you will always hit this mid-game window where you can't "seal a deal" and finish your opponent becasue time between early and mid game is damn long. Opposite to other factions, this window is longer for like 4-5mins which is huge.
10 Dec 2017, 14:10 PM
#1340
avatar of sherlock
Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1

Played another match and this happened. Is this a DBP bug or the standard game? :D

PAGES (85)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • Ostheer flag T.R. 6 squads, 4 maxim 2 engies
  • U.S. Forces flag °NOSMarkov.-
uploaded by KahootKing

Board Info

148 users are online: 6 members and 142 guests
BartonPL, blvckdream, NoktDraz, Katitof, Vipper, Stijndee
179 posts in the last 24h
896 posts in the last week
4745 posts in the last month
Registered members: 22073
Welcome our newest member, Gregoryzaa
Most online: 1221 users on 25 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM