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GCS Balance Preview

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1 Apr 2017, 02:30 AM
#1
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 874 | Subs: 2

Original 1.0

Original Relic Post:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/243814/gcs-balance-preview-changelog

Local Changelog:


Update 1.1

Original Relic Post:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/comment/267536#Comment_267536

Local Changelog:


Update 1.2:

Original Relic Post:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/comment/267673#Comment_267673

Local Changelog:


Update 1.3

Original Relic Post:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/comment/268076#Comment_268076

Local Changelog:

1.3.1 Local Changelog:

1.3.2 Local Changelog:


Update 1.4

Original Relic Post:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/comment/268147#Comment_268147

Local Changelog:


Other Information

GCS Balance Preview Steam Workshop Link:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=895625217

Official Feedback Thread:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/243815/gcs-balance-preview-feedback

Official Bug Reporting Thread:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/243816/gcs-balance-preview-bug-reporting

Community Members Who Helped Develop This Patch:
jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2017, 06:06 AMMr.Smith
An important thing we forgot to acknowledge in the notes is the help we got from the following players to help shape the content of the patch. Given here in alphabetical order:
- AccountEliminator (A_E)
- Barton
- HelpingHans
- Luvnest
- Noganno
- Thanatos
- The Hooligan
- Theodosios
- Thunderhun
- Tobis
- Tomakaze
- Zarok


Release Date of Patch:
jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2017, 06:19 AMMr.Smith

This is a patch that will go live sometime at the end of the month (to coincide with the GCS tournament).


jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2017, 08:54 AMcapiqua
GCS patch will be implemented on Tuesday[, April 25].
1 Apr 2017, 02:36 AM
#2
avatar of SturmTigerVorgo

Posts: 157

Awesome !! Thanks guys!
1 Apr 2017, 02:39 AM
#3
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 347

No USF nerfs?
God Bless.
1 Apr 2017, 03:09 AM
#4
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1607

Great changes! I have been asking for hold-fire back on AT guns for a long time but we still need and deserve manual reload on MG's and magazine-based vehicles (USF M17 HT, Ostwind etc) as well as removal of CP's/VP's blocking vehicle pathing.
1 Apr 2017, 03:21 AM
#5
avatar of JackDickolson

Posts: 179



The Cromwell needs to have its penetration value lowered. Or perhaps I should say it is the PIV which is in dire need of a pen buff, I don't know.

With RM and penals having been addressed already, I think VolkGrens need some adjustments. Be it increased vet XP requirment, nerfed RA or or cooldown tweaks or removing the flame nade (or alternatively, it could be used on garrisons and buildings only)

Also removing the sprint was not necessary, now that the HMG has an increased setup time.

Most of the other stuff were done expertly.

Instead of completely immobilizing a vehicle, the ability now simply prevents the vehicle from automatically rotating to face enemy units and will now only do so if explicitly given attack command. At the same time, if the ability is on, the vehicle will stop automatically rotating once the movement is complete.
Gotta love the level of attention to details here. GJ.
1 Apr 2017, 03:25 AM
#6
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Strategist Badge

Posts: 282

My opinion on nerfs:

Please note all these reviews are from a 1v1 perspective as I am a primary 1v1 player.
1 Apr 2017, 03:26 AM
#7
avatar of YandereCM

Posts: 6

With due respect, I don't think your avatar and ID fit in the post, as some people would get the first impression that this patch is going to be biased lol
1 Apr 2017, 03:46 AM
#8
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 874 | Subs: 2

With due respect, I don't think your avatar and ID fit in the post, as some people would get the first impression that this patch is going to be biased lol

? :huhsign:?
1 Apr 2017, 03:52 AM
#9
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1607



The Cromwell needs to have its penetration value lowered. Or perhaps I should say it is the PIV which is in dire need of a pen buff, I don't know.

With RM and penals having been addressed already, I think VolkGrens need some adjustments. Be it increased vet XP requirment, nerfed RA or or cooldown tweaks or removing the flame nade (or alternatively, it could be used on garrisons and buildings only)

Also removing the sprint was not necessary, now that the HMG has an increased setup time.

Most of the other stuff were done expertly.

Gotta love the level of attention to details here. GJ.


Honestly, with access to doctrinal Assault Nades and S-Mines, making Flame nades only work on Garrisons seems like a totally reasonable change.
1 Apr 2017, 04:04 AM
#10
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 1499 | Subs: 3

Some context for the maxim suppression:

It still suppresses in one burst, but the burst is rreeeeeeeaaaaallllllyyyy long. You can dodge attack-moved maxims now.
1 Apr 2017, 06:06 AM
#11
avatar of Mr.Smith
Master Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1630 | Subs: 14

An important thing we forgot to acknowledge in the notes is the help we got from the following players to help shape the content of the patch. Given here in alphabetical order:
- AccountEliminator (A_E)
- Barton
- HelpingHans
- Luvnest
- Noganno
- Thanatos
- The Hooligan
- Theodosios
- Thunderhun
- Tobis
- Tomakaze
- Zarok

@OP would you consent if we moved your post to CoH2 gameplay/balance section? I think either section is more appropriate.


Maxim


Maxim will need a ton of attention from everybody to get right. The resulting values you see are the result of 5 testing iterations.

@Everyone

Feel free to invent a new Vet1 ability for the Maxim


Command Panther

Increase Command Point requirements from 10 to 11
Reduce Mark Target damage from +50% to +25%
Mark Target now also increases penetration and accuracy to 25%

Command point increase is good.
Coordinated fire damage reduction is good for 35 munis.
Increase in pen and accuracy by 25%. So specifically for the command panther it's pen is 220/240/260 respectivly. As far as the panther goes at the BARE MINIMUM coordinated fire will bring penetration up to 275 which against the heaviest allied tanks like the comet and pershing to my knowledge are the heaviest will all but destroy any tank that challenges the CP in a 1v1. Comet at 290 armor and persh at 300 that is an outrageous pen chance and damage and accuracy buff for 35 munitions. This nerf is far from effective IMO. I believe for 35 munitions the damage buff of 25% would be more than sufficient and maybe the accuracy buff, but definatly not the pen. Also does coordinated fire increase accuracy and pen of the CP or the tank affected. From my understand it's the CP, but it's just poorly worded and I could be mistaken.


I think it's OK if the Command Panther has the niche role of hunting down heavy tanks. Pershing and IS-2 are call-ins, and it's OK if OKW also has a call-in available to contest those tanks. Call-in meta is what it is, and we have to balance around that.

The absolute bullshit thing about Command Panther was how it was hardcountering tech-tied medium tanks. The only part of CP efficiency I will really miss is vs call-in Shermans. Hopefully the timer fix will smooth that out.


Emergency Warspeed


Speed modifier reduced from +35% to +15%
Acceleration modifier reduced from +60% to +30%
It is no longer possible to “tune-up” allied tanks with Emergency Warspeed

Maybe a bit overkill here, I havn't seen the brit tanks speed in action with these nerfs yet so we'll see how fast they really are. But as long as EWS is free, I think this is fine. I would've liked to see it maybe cost as much as bltizkrieg and combat blitz and maybe lower the nerf a bit but this is fine regardless.


The old values of EWS were equal to P4 blitzkrieg. The new values of EWS are equal to Panther blitzkrieg, so it's not completely an overkill.

A more-tailored nerf would be to give the new EWS values to Cromwell/Comet which are still really fast, and give a higher value to the rest of the brit units.


AEC Treadshot

Unit has to be stationary to fire Treadshot
Ready aim time reduced from 2 seconds to 1.5 seconds (improves responsiveness)
Reload time between shots reduced from 2.5 seconds to 2 seconds
(the ability will only be refunded if no shots were fired before moving)

Good changes. This ability was so inconsistant but horrifying when it actually worked. A 20 second disable is just wow.


Immobilize was nerfed to 7 secs in WBP. In addition to the list of changes above, we also fixed a bug which caused AEC to occasionally derp around for 4-ish seconds before lining up treadshot.

The actual duration of the snare might need a closer look. However, I think it's a good idea for Brits to have access to a reliable, unique, snare, even if it doesn't last as long.


Cromwell

This is where you just fall over and say overkill. Now I havn't seen these changes in action, but the biggest thing glaring out here is the 0.5 moving accuracy modifier. That is an absolute massive nerf as it's exponentially more effective to have a higher value. I think 0.6 would have been fine, but we'll have to see how it plays out. Hopefully the crush is weakened enough and the fuel cost increase will at least delay brits a bit more before they can start getting vehicles out because their tech costs when rushing T3 are the cheapest of any faction. For upper level skilled players who use "glide shots" it just means that you'll be punished more or need to improve your micro to that level. I think this is just a bit overkill though.


The keyword for moving accuracy here is "Hold Fire".

Having higher amounts of moving accuracy is what facilitates players building X number of cromwells, right clicking behind enemy tanks, and generally A-moving. If you have to use stop-and-shoot to fire every shot, well, you can't spam Cromwell as effectively.

Note that Cromwell still has its characteristic racecar speed (though, now it should take longer to reach that vet level without crush and without dank commander bonuses).

Also, the keyword here is "use hold fire while moving, and disable hold fire, when you're about to shoot". The other thing of note is that if you use glide shots, Cromwell still has the advantage over other tanks due to better acceleration.


Comet

Comet I'd say is probably overkill as well. Popcap now 20 and moving accuracy modifier from 0.75 to 0.5. I think 18 may be a suitable popcap for this tank, KTs and JTs sit at 21 and this tank while powerful for sure I don't believe it warrents 20 popcap but we'll see. Good to see crush nerfed here as well good job. Main gun range lowered, this is ok. I don't think it was required but is a pretty small change.


Range decrease is so that Panther now has an actual edge over the Comet (the Comet can still self-spot to range 45). Smaller range will also allow Raketens/Stugs to engage the Comet to some extent.

20 popcap, I think, is just the right amount of popcap. Especially if you use the fact that P4 (which is 12 popcap) as the golden standard. In addition to being a good tank, Comet is also kind-of the mobile indirect fire Brits get (white phosphorus).

Also, giving Comet a higher popcap value will help instil that degree of authenticity in that Brits didn't really fight in WW2 using Comet spam.

Sidenote: 20-21 popcap values for JT/KT are absolute bullshit. King tiger is easily a 26-popcap tank. For JT, this is contentious, as, it absolutely dominates teamgames; I'd say it should be worth around 28 popcap, given its footprint.

At least JT/KT are limited to one. Comets can be spammed. Thus, having an accurate popcap value for its worth will disentivise spam (I really wouldn't go above 2 Comets now). However, the very moment we are allowed to deploy our fix to USF popcap abuse (yes, it's fixable), heavy tank popcap be getting the right values, accordingly.


Land Mattress

Interesting change and very unique. However reducing the durability from 350 to 300 is actually a massive change because now due to AT rounds dealing 160 damage, the mattress will die in 2 hits instead of 3. I think it maybe to easy for it to die, but as long as you cover your flanks and don't overextend to much you should be able to protect it. This may also be an issue with the cloaking of rakattens.


Note that the Landmattress already currently dies if it reaches 0 HP. Personally, I'll be sneaking hold-fire raketens to take LM out.

Note that while the LM is now too easy to die, it's also too easy to get as well. Easy-come, easy-go, as they say.

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2017, 04:04 AMTobis
Some context for the maxim suppression:

It still pins in one burst, but the burst is rreeeeeeeaaaaallllllyyyy long. You can dodge attack-moved maxims now.


I hope by "pins" you mean "suppresses"
1 Apr 2017, 06:14 AM
#12
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4243

If I may suggest a Vet 1 ability:

Sustained Fire (Timed): The Maxim makes use of it's water-cooled nature to fire automatically until the belt is expended or the enemy is gone.

Alternatively:

Sweeping Fire (Timed): Similar to above, but the Maxim sweeps back and fourth, spreading suppression evenly over the entire arc.
1 Apr 2017, 06:19 AM
#13
avatar of Mr.Smith
Master Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1630 | Subs: 14

By the way. Another thing that I forgot to mention is the following:
This is a patch that will go live sometime at the end of the month (to coincide with the GCS tournament).

The scope is what it is; we will not be able to expand the scope to include any other units. However, the units that are in-scope are our bitches now. However, we have at most 2 weeks to adjust them.

Thus, we need feedback, and we need feedback fast.

If I may suggest a Vet 1 ability:

Sustained Fire (Timed): The Maxim makes use of it's water-cooled nature to fire automatically until the belt is expended or the enemy is gone.

Alternatively:

Sweeping Fire (Timed): Similar to above, but the Maxim sweeps back and fourth, spreading suppression evenly over the entire arc.


I like your ideas, and how you go for authenticity. Can you elaborate a bit more on your ideas?

Would sustained fire reduce the cooldown by a lot, but be an ability targeted against 1 particular unit (e.g., like Volley fire)

Would sweeping fire have a similar interface to the Centaur?


1 Apr 2017, 06:20 AM
#14
avatar of IA3 - HH

Posts: 218

GCS ??
1 Apr 2017, 06:31 AM
#15
avatar of aomsinzana

Posts: 102 | Subs: 1

Maxim change ... but no Cons change too ? How can we play SU in this mod ?
1 Apr 2017, 06:41 AM
#16
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1480 | Subs: 2

:clap: Call me skeptic, but this must be a april fools joke. Hard to believe relic would have another patch within a month. :luvCarrot:
1 Apr 2017, 06:43 AM
#17
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 285

April fools? One axis change and the rest allied nerfs

Command panther buff unecessary. +25% accuracy is cherry on top for such a strong unit
1 Apr 2017, 06:44 AM
#18
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1480 | Subs: 2

It just looks too good to be true, no?
1 Apr 2017, 06:47 AM
#19
avatar of Mr.Smith
Master Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1630 | Subs: 14

Note that, while there might be some scepticism going around, it was not April 1st in Vancouver the time when the mod was released!
1 Apr 2017, 06:52 AM
#20
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1480 | Subs: 2

I am aware of that, but wont change the fact that its 1st of April in Europe. :D
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