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WinterBalance 1.2

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11 Dec 2016, 23:16 PM
#121
avatar of Muad'Dib

Posts: 368


...

Are you sure that the halftrack managed to open fire in less than 4 seconds after finishing moving?


Thanks for the explanation. I am not sure it started firing, so I probably got confused by the bar. That would explain why it seemed to behave weirdly the whole game.
12 Dec 2016, 00:13 AM
#122
avatar of BartonPL

Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6



Do note that Stug-E becoming better, and more consistent vs stationary infantry is the intended design.

The trade-off here, is that stug-E should be considerably worse vs mobile infantry.

Also note that a Stug-E costs about half of the resources that a Brummbar requires. Thus, 2x Stug-E's should be somewhat comparable. Especially now that Stug-E packs inferior AT utility/durability to the Brummbar.

The days of cheesing the Stug-E commander are over.
However, Stug-E should still have -something- to draw people to picking this commander over the other commanders.

The real stress-test here is how Stug-E performs vs AT guns.


why do you compare easier to get Stug E to a high tech brumbar? in that case 2 Stug E's should be worse than brumbar
12 Dec 2016, 07:37 AM
#123
avatar of LimaOscarMike

Posts: 440


... You are joking, right??
Sniper, mortar, 120mm mortar, SU barrage, Zis barrage, flamethrower engies or penals, ppsh conscripts, molotov, sachel.
Calling L2P on this one.


+1
In 4v4, if one player spams SU's its game over for any emplacement/trench you have.


+1 on this.
PzIV is in dire need for some love



sorry it was language issue just want to see this ability work it own way like i've used jadgetiger ability to wipe out stationary weapon

perharp 1400 hr not enough i'll try to learn then :D
12 Dec 2016, 07:43 AM
#124
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578

I would still prefer M-42 in T1 instead of PTRS. You know, more combined arms etc ;)

Me too.

Re: the satchel sticky - it sounds useful, but as others have said, the windup time needs to be lowered to give it a chance to hit somewhat reliably. The charge has a very long fuse, so there's no real reason it needs a long windup as well. The windup is actually a squad survivability issue (i.e. it makes the penal take damage from enemy supporting inf while he's winding up), which might no longer be necessary after all the penal changes.

So yeah, reduce the windup.
12 Dec 2016, 08:08 AM
#125
avatar of LimaOscarMike

Posts: 440


Me too.

Re: the satchel sticky - it sounds useful, but as others have said, the windup time needs to be lowered to give it a chance to hit somewhat reliably. The charge has a very long fuse, so there's no real reason it needs a long windup as well. The windup is actually a squad survivability issue (i.e. it makes the penal take damage from enemy supporting inf while he's winding up), which might no longer be necessary after all the penal changes.

So yeah, reduce the windup.


sound great tho but still need some love 1 M42 can keep opponent light tank at bay but what should we do with them in mid game cause it wasted pop cap too
12 Dec 2016, 08:23 AM
#126
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

A little off topic, but do you think you could finally fix the bug where the Jagdpanzer IV doesn't move the barrel when aiming? It's been bugged since OKW came out.
12 Dec 2016, 10:08 AM
#127
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



Do note that Stug-E becoming better, and more consistent vs stationary infantry is the intended design.

The trade-off here, is that stug-E should be considerably worse vs mobile infantry.

Also note that a Stug-E costs about half of the resources that a Brummbar requires. Thus, 2x Stug-E's should be somewhat comparable. Especially now that Stug-E packs inferior AT utility/durability to the Brummbar.

The days of cheesing the Stug-E commander are over.
However, Stug-E should still have -something- to draw people to picking this commander over the other commanders.

The real stress-test here is how Stug-E performs vs AT guns.


the new stug E is basically another brummbar at this point, with minor stats difference.

The vanilla stug E had two issue, it's too cheap (200mp 75 fuel 8 pop is a steal) and the main gun stun is too powerful.

I really have to stress how cheap the vanilla stug E is. At 200 mp 75 fuel it's only 5 fuel more expensive than the vanilla t70. The t70 might be the better infantry killer, but the stug E is just a much better overall package.

I think your solution is over complicating the issue by changing it into a new units.

and the doctrine itself have issue in 2v2+ because of the lackluster Tiger and Assault grenadier.
12 Dec 2016, 10:16 AM
#128
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3597 | Subs: 1



the new stug E is basically another brummbar at this point, with minor stats difference.

The vanilla stug E had two issue, it's too cheap (200mp 75 fuel is a steal) and the main gun stun is too powerful.

I think your solution is over complicating the issue by changing it into a new units.

and the doctrine itself have issue in 2v2+ because of the lackluster Tiger and Assault grenadier.


I use the doctrine almost every time on 2vs2+ if I don't need a specific late game unit such as the Elef or Lefh.

Assault Grenadiers are really powerful early game, you can get 2 of them or combine a squad with a HMG42 early on.
250 ht = let you have a cheap and reliable FT vehicle + a squad of pzgren.
stug-e, no need to present its advantages. It strongly counter allied players over-investing on infantry.
Arty, cheap and effective.
Tiger, good generalist unit.
12 Dec 2016, 10:53 AM
#129
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

I like that you are thinking of newer and newer things, just don't take it too far. The Penals already have PTRS, there is no need for a sticky satchell...

Why not make the conscripts a better at unit? This will leave the penals in t1 to have good anti infantry and have the conscripts as backup from hq for whenever the need for at arises.
12 Dec 2016, 11:19 AM
#130
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



sound great tho but still need some love 1 M42 can keep opponent light tank at bay but what should we do with them in mid game cause it wasted pop cap too


Wasted pop-cap, just like PTRS Penals in late game :sibHyena:

But in fact it's not. I've had plenty 2v2 games agasint top 100 AT where I used defensive doctrine and I was able to reach 10k damage with single M-42 quite often.

It may have low penetration and damage but it has quite good rate of fire.

If anything, it could see vet ability similar to 57mm which would increase penetration and/or damage for 30secs for example.
12 Dec 2016, 11:42 AM
#131
avatar of LimaOscarMike

Posts: 440

There's always a room for penals since they hadn't get any buff i dont even know why they should it's still good back in that day :snfPeter:

M-42 well perharp i've never notice how good it is late game but i also got plenty damage from this unit in late game but one thing i've know is i got so many damage because my opponent doesn't see it as a treat so he just stand there and focus other unit till he ran back
12 Dec 2016, 12:40 PM
#132
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

Butter by the fishes.

How deal a OKW player vs a a soviet which spam penals? He cann´t..only the AA FLakhalftrack help him.

Now the penals get a AT Hand rifle...and the halftrack is such a sensible car...

How can a OKW Player now with penal spam? the MG is crap, halftrack die like flys, volks cant stand penals, luchs is now crap...


soviet need only penals spam into t34/85...penals must have a weakpoint..or they get the new riflemen

PS: When will the OKW FLAK emplacement get a little love? It cost much manpower,gas, armypoints and a right doctrine.

a bofors laugh about this flak emplcement...their soldiers die in 2 secounds.

12 Dec 2016, 13:00 PM
#133
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17



the new stug E is basically another brummbar at this point, with minor stats difference.

The vanilla stug E had two issue, it's too cheap (200mp 75 fuel 8 pop is a steal) and the main gun stun is too powerful.

I really have to stress how cheap the vanilla stug E is. At 200 mp 75 fuel it's only 5 fuel more expensive than the vanilla t70. The t70 might be the better infantry killer, but the stug E is just a much better overall package.

I think your solution is over complicating the issue by changing it into a new units.

and the doctrine itself have issue in 2v2+ because of the lackluster Tiger and Assault grenadier.


Live version Stug-E is a glorified, long-range T-70.

Unlike T-70. Unlike the T-70 though, this unit lacks a turret and, thus, the ability to safely close the distance. Thus, if the map happened to have any sort of elevation between the Stug-E and the target, tough luck.

I have played a lot of 3v3+ games, all steps of the ladder. I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever seen that commander bring anything but misfortune to the guy that chooses it.

There's so many hills and shotblockers and anything, that you are better off spamming Ostwinds (which arrive earlier than the Stug-E for those game-modes).

Even TWP is not enough to carry the Stug-E there.

Even if massed Stug-E can somehow displace Brummbars (which don't die to 3 shots poking them, btw), let it be. In any case the doctrine also gets access to Tigers.

12 Dec 2016, 13:03 PM
#134
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
Butter by the fishes.

How deal a OKW player vs a a soviet which spam penals? He cann´t..only the AA FLakhalftrack help him.

Now the penals get a AT Hand rifle...and the halftrack is such a sensible car...

How can a OKW Player now with penal spam? the MG is crap, halftrack die like flys, volks cant stand penals, luchs is now crap...


soviet need only penals spam into t34/85...penals must have a weakpoint..or they get the new riflemen

PS: When will the OKW FLAK emplacement get a little love? It cost much manpower,gas, armypoints and a right doctrine.

a bofors laugh about this flak emplcement...their soldiers die in 2 secounds.



its l2p man, coz HT have more range than PTRS, he have smoke. Luhs work fine too.
12 Dec 2016, 13:07 PM
#135
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
I can undestand you logic moders, ppl whine that light vehicles come to early, what you do in this path, make it more cheaper. Like you buff okw early mid game. but forget about there late game and docs, like ostwind and com panther.
12 Dec 2016, 13:30 PM
#136
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243



its l2p man, coz HT have more range than PTRS, he have smoke. Luhs work fine too.


uhm..yes..its cleary fai...one side need only spam one unit..and the other side need combine army (volks, mg, flack Ht) to deal with this one unit.

seems legit and totally fair.

Didnt u see that soviet now need only penals to deal with all enemy units... till heavy tanks?

Soviet can okw player own in the firs 5-6 minute to spam penals or Mgs....the okw is outplayed and can be push into his base by a mg lock.

12 Dec 2016, 13:34 PM
#137
avatar of Pedro_Jedi

Posts: 543

I don't know if this was said before... But PLEASE, someone change Brit Cancer Commander to something more edible.
12 Dec 2016, 13:56 PM
#138
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned


uhm..yes..its cleary fai...one side need only spam one unit..and the other side need combine army (volks, mg, flack Ht) to deal with this one unit.

seems legit and totally fair.

Didnt u see that soviet now need only penals to deal with all enemy units... till heavy tanks?

Soviet can okw player own in the firs 5-6 minute to spam penals or Mgs....the okw is outplayed and can be push into his base by a mg lock.



Man ptrs penals are useles vs infatry.
12 Dec 2016, 14:34 PM
#139
avatar of Swift

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1

They are by no means useless vs infantry, just very underwhelming. The squad still doss decent damage it's only the models with PTRSs letting them down with ten damage per shot. Still, not a bad little unit at the moment.

The StugE is performing nicely too, much more consistent damage without rng wipes, so good job.

I don't know if you know about the bug with the Assault Grens where they can cancel their grenades mid throw to get the ability off cooldown, but one of my friends I was playing with said it was possible to bypass the it by cancelling mid animation before all nades were thrown and you could then do it again. May have to test it out more. But if you know, you know.
12 Dec 2016, 14:44 PM
#140
avatar of JackDickolson

Posts: 181



Man ptrs penals are useles vs infatry.
Not as useless as Panzergrenadiers with panzershrecks.;)
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