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Soviet vehicles

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Katitof
9 Dec 2015, 12:26 PM
#21
avatar of Katitof

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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2015, 12:11 PMBlackart


Hmm

PPS-43 submachine gun
SG-43 Goryunov machine gun
100mm Model 1944 BS-3 anti tank gun

KV-85
KV-1S
SU-100
SU-122
ISU-122


Not to mention whole RNGod damn infantry formations.

By the time when mp happens, there were still conscripts, but most of the advancing armies consisted of guard and shock armies battle hardened veterans instead of lousy conscripts after a week of training.

And we have conscripts and penals who are unable to hit anything above 15 range, being the most inferior infantry on the long range combat without having any of the benefits of short range that other armies wouldn't have already as well, cons don't even have survivability until vet3.

I don't believe cons will see any change, but can I haz useful, long range oriented penals instead of penals overlaping with cons and being vastly inferior to cons if you pick any weapon upgrade doctrine?
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Australian Magic
9 Dec 2015, 12:32 PM
#22
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2015, 12:11 PMBlackart


Hmm

PPS-43 submachine gun
SG-43 Goryunov machine gun
100mm Model 1944 BS-3 anti tank gun

KV-85
KV-1S
SU-100
SU-122
ISU-122


I had a dream. A dream where Relic released specialized late-war commander... :wub:
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Mr. Someguy
9 Dec 2015, 12:54 PM
#23
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2015, 08:44 AMpoop
SU is stuck with 1941 tech while everyone else is late war. SU-100, and DSKH were the primary weapons, yet we are stuck with SU-85 and Maxim MG.


1941? Please. SU and Ost are ~1943 with quite a few quirks, but generally that's accurate to their army composition. OKW and USF are 1944-1945 and UKF is 1945. The only thing I'd do replacement-wise is consider a T-34/85 (possibly reworked) as a stock tank in order to keep up with the power creep over the years, and a doctrine featuring the SU-100, maybe add it to Advanced Warfare.

The SU-85 was introduced in 1943 and served until the end of the war, the Maxim also served until the end of the war. The DShK was never the standard machine gun, the Maxim and SG-43 were. Despite the SG-43's introduction, the Maxim was produced and used until 1945.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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Icemanjoker
9 Dec 2015, 12:55 PM
#24
avatar of Icemanjoker

Posts: 52

I used both Kattys and T34/85s really effectivly yesterday.
The Katty seems a bit inaccurate and RNG dependend but if you can drive it closer it will hit. That is actually nice because it's rewarding to take risks. It also scales really well with vet.
The T34/85 is still good against all targets and imo still one of the best medium tanks. The majority of the time you will also go Guard Motor when going for T85s and the combination of those tanks and mark vehicle is still disgusting.

SU85 definetly needs a buff, prolly out of all soviet units the most. It easyly gets outclassed by the Su76 since last patch especially if you consider their costs. At least while stationary it shouldn't miss any vehicles bigger than a Luchs at all, it's current accuracy is a joke. Penetration might need a buff too, I don't really like seing assault guns (in that price class) bouncing because their only use is too engage armor from the front. No AI capabilities, no turret so they should at least be pretty good head on.
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LuGer33
9 Dec 2015, 13:07 PM
#25
avatar of LuGer33

Posts: 174

3.T34/85
Needs a serious damage and penetration buff. It should be able to reliably penetrate the frontal armor of panthers and Panzer IV ausf.J. It's almost as expensive as an easy eight but it is nowhere near as good.

Had one of these guys shoot point blank at a Volks Shrek squad not in cover last night. 3 straight misses, no model kills, barely any health loss. Meanwhile the Shrek was just penning away...

Mainly bad RNG and I should have been trying to crush them anyway (match was already over). But man, the performance of the 85 these days leaves a bit to be desired.
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Butcher
9 Dec 2015, 13:26 PM
#26
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2015, 08:15 AMA big guy 4u


2.SU-85
Oh boy. Where do I start? This supposed 'tank destroyer' bonces shots at a panther.
As it should. The Panther sacrifices the 60 range of other tank destroyers/ hunters for frontal armor. Further a Panther without frontal armor would be silly. This game is not about absolute realism but is influenced by it. A strength of the Panther should be decent frontal armor.

The Su-85 could do with some price decrease though.

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2015, 08:15 AMA big guy 4u

3.T34/85
Needs a serious damage and penetration buff. It should be able to reliably penetrate the frontal armor of panthers.
The same as above. It is not meant to frontally engage Panthers.

The T-34/85 outperforms the Panzer IV easily and has the health of a Panther. It is strong enough. The only flaw I see, is it being doctrinal.
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Mr. Someguy
9 Dec 2015, 13:30 PM
#27
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2015, 12:11 PMBlackart
Hmm

PPS-43 submachine gun
SG-43 Goryunov machine gun
100mm Model 1944 BS-3 anti tank gun

KV-85
KV-1S
SU-100
SU-122
ISU-122

PPS-43 and SG-43 would only be cosmetic differences, just because they're newer doesn't mean they're automatically be a better unit. The BS-3 isn't in simply because the Devs didn't add it, there's no conspiracy behind it. I don't claim the StuG IV was left out because OKW can't have a cheap Assault Gun, they just chose the more expensive Jagdpanzer.

KV-85? Stopgap measure, produced briefly in 1943 until the IS series was ready.
KV-1S? A faster but weaker KV-1. Other changes like commander's copula don't effect gameplay.
SU-100? Would support as a doctrinal unit, something like a Jagdpanzer with Firefly gun.
SU-122? By your standards this is an early war unit, introduced in 1942.
ISU-122? Would be redundant with the inclusion of the SU-100, I'd say one or the other.



jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2015, 13:07 PMLuGer33
Had one of these guys shoot point blank at a Volks Shrek squad not in cover last night. 3 straight misses, no model kills, barely any health loss. Meanwhile the Shrek was just penning away...

Bad luck. The only medium tank with better scatter and area-of-effect is the M4 Sherman using HE. The T-34-85 using it's main gun is easily the second best.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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Putinist
9 Dec 2015, 13:33 PM
#28
avatar of Putinist

Posts: 175

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2015, 08:15 AMA big guy 4u


1.If all rockets were to be fired at once, it would probably need a huge damage nerf. I would like to see slight suppression added instead - it wouldn't affect its performance against static positions much (were it performs fine imo) but increase performance against blobbed infantry (were it performs poorly atm).

2. I like the idea, that someone posted, of putting some of the vet attributes to vet 0. It is beastly when vetted, but at the moment there is much better choices when considering the poor performance you get when you build it.

3. I think t-34/85 is performing fine. It shouldn't reliably penetrate panthers front armor, and Panzer IV ausf.j overperforms atm because of all the problems with OKW atm, such as teching costs, unit timing and the pop bug. That doesn't warrant a buff for t-34/85.
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Phy
9 Dec 2015, 13:40 PM
#29
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

SU is crap, but what can you expect according to the point of view shown by relic in the campaign. History? No, propaganda!
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Katitof
9 Dec 2015, 13:46 PM
#30
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2015, 13:33 PMPutinist


1.If all rockets were to be fired at once, it would probably need a huge damage nerf. I would like to see slight suppression added instead - it wouldn't affect its performance against static positions much (were it performs fine imo) but increase performance against blobbed infantry (were it performs poorly atm).

Calliope shoots much more then 16 rockets, most of them in the first barrage, they still do 80 dmg.
Katy also have huge scatter, which makes it 100% RNG tool while pwerfer annihilates whatever you shoot at.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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__deleted__
9 Dec 2015, 13:53 PM
#31
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 830

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2015, 08:41 AMBlalord


SU-85 Has the best DPS of any tank destroyer with vet, can self spot


Oh really, JP4 outperforms su85 in slugfest anyday of the week.
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Blalord
9 Dec 2015, 14:00 PM
#32
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Posts: 742 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2015, 13:53 PM__deleted__


Oh really, JP4 outperforms su85 in slugfest anyday of the week.


if we are talking of Vet 5 Jp4 spamming ambush strike yes, but without, no, Su 85 Vet3 do way more dps than Jp4
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Putinist
9 Dec 2015, 14:05 PM
#33
avatar of Putinist

Posts: 175

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2015, 13:46 PMKatitof

Calliope shoots much more then 16 rockets, most of them in the first barrage, they still do 80 dmg.
Katy also have huge scatter, which makes it 100% RNG tool while pwerfer annihilates whatever you shoot at.


I think I read somewhere that it was 24 rockets, about 10 in the first barrage? I haven't tested it or played against it, so I don't know how it performs. Still, 16 rockets are quite a bit more than 10, however, I don't know the AoE profiles and scatter for the rockets.

Adding suppression to katyusha will make it easier to punish blobs as they can't simply walk out of the barrage, which they can now, and therefore lower the RNG as more barrages will hit. That will punish slow reacting players, and at least force retreats.

Panzerwerfer is overperforming, doesn't warrant a possible overbuff for katyusha.
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Blackart
9 Dec 2015, 14:13 PM
#34
avatar of Blackart

Posts: 344

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2015, 13:40 PMPhy
SU is crap, but what can you expect according to the point of view shown by relic in the campaign. History? No, propaganda!


Well the NKVD really captured and killed many AK members (Armia Krajowa - Polish Home Army).

Polish resistance soldiers fighting together with the Red Army at Vilnius:



After the city was taken from the Germans:

Uprising

On 12 June 1944 General Tadeusz Bór-Komorowski, Commander-in-Chief of the Home Army, issued an order to prepare a plan of liberating Vilnius from German hands. The Home Army districts of Vilnius and Navahrudak planned to take control of the city before the Soviets could reach it. The Commander of the Home Army District in Vilnius, then Wilno, General Aleksander Krzyżanowski "Wilk", decided to regroup all the partisan units in the northeastern part of Poland for the assault, both from inside the city and from the outside.

The starting date was set to 7 July. Approximately 12,500 Home Army soldiers attacked the German garrison and managed to seize most of the city center. Heavy street fighting in the outskirts lasted until 14 July. In Vilnius' eastern suburbs, the Home Army units cooperated with reconnaissance groups of the Soviet 3rd Belorussian Front.[1]

Soviets enter

General Krzyżanowski wanted to group all of the partisan units into a re-created Polish 19th Infantry Division. However, the advancing Red Army entered the city on 15 July and the NKVD started to intern all Polish soldiers. On 16 July the HQ of the 3rd Belorussian Front invited Polish officers to a meeting and arrested them.[2] [3] [4]

The internees, almost 5,000 officers, NCOs and soldiers, were sent to a provisional internment camp in Medininkai, a Vilnius suburb. Some of them were given the option of joining the 1st Polish Army which was integrated into the Soviet armed forces, while the majority were sent to the USSR.[5]

Subsequently, the remnants of the local Home Army HQ ordered all units to retreat to Rūdininkai Forest. It is estimated that by 18 July almost 6,000 soldiers and 12,000 volunteers reached the area. They were soon discovered by Soviet air reconnaissance and surrounded by the NKVD. Commanders decided to split their units and try to break through to the Białystok area. However, most of the Home Army forces were caught and interned.

After dispersing Lt. Col. Maciej Kalenkiewicz "Kotwicz" remained in the forests around the city with approximately 80-100 soldiers until early August. On 21 August, Kalenkiewicz's unit was engaged by the NKVD expeditionary forces, further reinforced by the NKVD Intelligence-Search Unit 3, Battalion 32, commanded by NKVD's Captain Shulkha, and Capt. Tshikin of the Regional NKVD detachment. During the battle, 39 Home Army Soldiers, including Major Kalenkiewicz were killed.


Yes, Vilnius after the war become part of the Soviet Union.
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DonnieChan
9 Dec 2015, 14:26 PM
#35
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2260 | Subs: 1

playercard?
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197983982810
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Blackart
9 Dec 2015, 14:28 PM
#36
avatar of Blackart

Posts: 344

Btw Katy Concentrated barrage need to be fixed.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/45582/katyusha-vet-3-range-buff-dont-t-affect-concentrated-barrage/page/1#post_id448843

Katyusha vet 3 "+33% range" affect only Rocket barrage making Concentrated barrage for munition less usefull because it have less range then standard barrage at vet 3.

What is the point to risk full veted katy to get closer when you can use standard barrage from bigger range?

The "+33% range" buff should work on both Rocket barrage and Concentrated barrage.
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elchino7
9 Dec 2015, 15:17 PM
#37
avatar of elchino7
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Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I'll start by simply raising the accuracy values at long range to the level of other TDs.

Stug, JPIV, JT, M10 n M36 with HVAP: 0.06/0.04
Su85: 0.05/0.025

My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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UGBEAR
9 Dec 2015, 15:25 PM
#38
avatar of UGBEAR

Posts: 954

SU-100 doctrinal, USD 4.99 I'll pay!

T-34/85 non-doctrinal, pen to EZ8 level (price as well), I'll cry out

and perhaps 76mm sherman for US as non-doc, and a jumbo as call-in?

It's full of sorrow for allied players if you are going to a fight a inevitable late-game
jump backJump back to quoted post8 Nov 2015, 18:05 PMd0ggY
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think


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EtherealDragon
9 Dec 2015, 15:29 PM
#39
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Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2015, 08:58 AMBlackart


It miss a lot and at vet 0 it's rather pathetic.

The veterancy bonuses should be lowered and the stock vet su-85 should be buffed, now with vet 0 is crap but it becomes a monster at vet 3.

At vet 3 it get +50% reload and +30% accuracy, maybe lower this to +25% and +15% and buff the stock vet 0 su-85 with +25 % reload and +15 % acc.


This. SU-85 needs more differentiation from SU-76 that actually rewards you for teching up.
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Katitof
9 Dec 2015, 15:41 PM
#40
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Dec 2015, 15:29 PMEtherealDragon


This. SU-85 needs more differentiation from SU-76 that actually rewards you for teching up.

Well, it can self spot, so there is that.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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