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Auto reinforce

16 Jan 2023, 06:54 AM
#41
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2023, 14:31 PMluvnest
I understand where they are coming from, but for me personally I don't like this over-simplification. The little macro management CoH has has now been reduced even further. A sign of a decent player is not only how he manages combat, but also takes care of how fast reinforcements and replenished squads get back on the field. Also there is no reason to ever look at the base again apart from building the few structures a faction has to offer.


Um, you can double click on the structures and it will automatically build the structure at an available location. You don't have to look at the base at all after your first halftrack is out.
16 Jan 2023, 07:40 AM
#42
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 306

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2023, 06:54 AMGrumpy


Um, you can double click on the structures and it will automatically build the structure at an available location. You don't have to look at the base at all after your first halftrack is out.

I found that auto build structure is better since All of building take too much space and Base zone even smaller than COH 2 !.
16 Jan 2023, 07:58 AM
#43
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2023, 07:40 AMtheekvn

I found that auto build structure is better since All of building take too much space and Base zone even smaller than COH 2 !.


hence i prefer the asymmetry of coh2 bases.

but i guess the need to cater to consoles and potential new players..
16 Jan 2023, 08:57 AM
#44
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17900 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2023, 04:02 AMmrgame2


i argue with more automations, players with high apm gets even stronger...


as i said, vaulting and reinforcement helps to moderate the pace, asking for more user inputs. video games= user input, traditional rts =user inputs.

this is unlike say grinding to unlock features

Bads will always be bad, regardless how many QOL features will be in and high APM players will always have high APM, bit it does not matter if you have 10 or 100 APM when you don't have muni for nades and have to sit behind that cover anyway.

Difference is, this is not micro/macro intensive game like AoE or SC or even CnC, you get diminishing returns on your APM, because its irrelevant how fast you can click on the sandbag, when opponent clicks once to hide behind it it will be equally effective and efficient.

Units do not die as fast as they did in CoH2 here, that means APM ceiling separating average from good players got lowered and that is a good thing, means more competitive games, more decision making on long-term planning and what to build instead of hyper focusing on micro of light tank because it'll blow up if you blink, no, that is no longer here.

Also, DoW2 was extremely high APM game compared to any CoH, it always had auto reinforce and it never was a problem.
16 Jan 2023, 12:24 PM
#45
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1094

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2023, 16:11 PMluvnest


And as a result putting yourself at a disadvantage compared to the players who have it enabled? This is not a feature of personal preference like hotkey layout.


If you feel it is giving the enemy an advantage leave it on.
16 Jan 2023, 13:02 PM
#46
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3111 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2023, 12:24 PMGrim


If you feel it is giving the enemy an advantage leave it on.

That's not his point. His point - which I don't share - is that reinforcing were a skill that adds to the overall gameplay. Auto reinforce would remove that skill of the game.
It is obvious to all that people with auto reinforce will be at an advantage.
Pip
16 Jan 2023, 13:53 PM
#47
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

I feel like Autoreinforce is an absolutely ludicrous thing to complain about. There's no skill involved in mashing "F" when your units are in the base, it doesnt even take your attention away from the battlefield if you've hotkeyed your units correctly. There's no downside to this.

All Autoreinforce has done is improve the user experience, and keep players' attention on the battlefield, where the actually meaningful player interaction occurs.

There are gameplay changes made in CoH3 that warrant complaining about, but It's a massive reach to call Autoreinforce one of them, particularly if you're devising a strawman where this is akin to DoW 3's removal of veterancy/retreat mechanics.
16 Jan 2023, 14:18 PM
#48
avatar of Trizillion

Posts: 9

I stand corrected after playing all weekend: it's a good QoL addition to the game.
16 Jan 2023, 19:20 PM
#49
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1324

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2023, 02:52 AMmrgame2


not sure what's there to address? auto mine sweeping, you need to move your units over still, i usually click on it. user involvement.


Nope. If minesweeper squads afk near mines they automatically walk over to and remove them in coh2. So much involvement bro. Omg wow...


for usf and brit tech unlock, they don't have weapon upgrade in battles. they cannot build structure at edge of territories to get a few seconds in fielding units. user involvement.


Ok so now they get user involvement because they can still build buildings at the edge of territories. Or they can forgo it. Riflemen got bars as a tech upgrade in coh1. Not unprecedented gameplay here, guy.

repair stations is doctrinal, should auto reinforcement be too? i think it will be better if so...


Don't be silly. You know what I mean. Automatic repairs in coh2!?! Clearly done for the casuals smh.


let's be honest, the auto reinforcement, auto valt, auto breach emplacement, are done for console ports. even that bulky in your face UI

taking away such user involvements, what new tactical abilities were added? cant find them, so game will end up feeling less involvements, no?


Buddy, I never considered having to play point and click adventure game just to vault a fence in coh2 """involvement""" I considered it a nuisance. And to be completely honest with you, so was spamming the reinforce button. If that's what you played coh2 for, maybe you would have more fun playing Cookie Clicker or Starcraft.

I, meanwhile, enjoy actually maneuvering my units and throwing grenades at MGs, calling in smoke barrages with my mortars and flanking them with my CQC infantry, and flanking tanks. You know, the tactics part of the game.
16 Jan 2023, 19:37 PM
#50
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1324

At a certain point, you really need to re-evaluate your "muh user involvement" argument and ask yourself: "is this something that is actually engaging/fun to waste my time doing".

There are certain things that coh has never had you waste your time with. Why don't you ever have to refuel your tanks? Why don't you have to worry about supplying your units with ammunition to shoot their weapons with? Why don't you have to spend time cutting down trees and mining iron to build your base structures with? Do you really want to do these things? Would it improve your """user involvement"""? Or would it be asinine and take away from the thing you actually want to do (play the game).

Ask yourself seriously if you honestly enjoyed reinforcing your units. If you really miss having to squint and pick the right picket fence, maybe even missing it a few times in the process.

In fact, don't even ask yourself if you enjoyed reinforcing your units. There's no reason to because you can just turn it off. Wow, now you have your user involvement again. Amazing. Or is it simply that you dislike the fact that the game is being made more accessible to noobs and console players. Just say that instead man. Jesus.
16 Jan 2023, 19:53 PM
#51
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2263 | Subs: 1

At a certain point, you really need to re-evaluate your "muh user involvement" argument and ask yourself: "is this something that is actually engaging/fun to waste my time doing".

There are certain things that coh has never had you waste your time with. Why don't you ever have to refuel your tanks? Why don't you have to worry about supplying your units with ammunition to shoot their weapons with? Why don't you have to spend time cutting down trees and mining iron to build your base structures with? Do you really want to do these things? Would it improve your """user involvement"""? Or would it be asinine and take away from the thing you actually want to do (play the game).

Ask yourself seriously if you honestly enjoyed reinforcing your units. If you really miss having to squint and pick the right picket fence, maybe even missing it a few times in the process.

In fact, don't even ask yourself if you enjoyed reinforcing your units. There's no reason to because you can just turn it off. Wow, now you have your user involvement again. Amazing. Or is it simply that you dislike the fact that the game is being made more accessible to noobs and console players. Just say that instead man. Jesus.


psst.

don't try logic and elaborate answers here
16 Jan 2023, 20:22 PM
#52
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3111 | Subs: 2

At a certain point, you really need to re-evaluate your "muh user involvement" argument and ask yourself: "is this something that is actually engaging/fun to waste my time doing".

There are certain things that coh has never had you waste your time with. Why don't you ever have to refuel your tanks? Why don't you have to worry about supplying your units with ammunition to shoot their weapons with? Why don't you have to spend time cutting down trees and mining iron to build your base structures with? Do you really want to do these things? Would it improve your """user involvement"""? Or would it be asinine and take away from the thing you actually want to do (play the game).

Ask yourself seriously if you honestly enjoyed reinforcing your units. If you really miss having to squint and pick the right picket fence, maybe even missing it a few times in the process.

In fact, don't even ask yourself if you enjoyed reinforcing your units. There's no reason to because you can just turn it off. Wow, now you have your user involvement again. Amazing. Or is it simply that you dislike the fact that the game is being made more accessible to noobs and console players. Just say that instead man. Jesus.

This. Just this.

The question is not only if reinforcing is time well spend, but also if it is worth taking focus and micro away from actual RTS tasks like movement, judging when and how to engage etc.
17 Jan 2023, 02:23 AM
#53
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

At a certain point, you really need to re-evaluate your "muh user involvement" argument and ask yourself: "is this something that is actually engaging/fun to waste my time doing".

There are certain things that coh has never had you waste your time with. Why don't you ever have to refuel your tanks? Why don't you have to worry about supplying your units with ammunition to shoot their weapons with? Why don't you have to spend time cutting down trees and mining iron to build your base structures with? Do you really want to do these things? Would it improve your """user involvement"""? Or would it be asinine and take away from the thing you actually want to do (play the game).

Ask yourself seriously if you honestly enjoyed reinforcing your units. If you really miss having to squint and pick the right picket fence, maybe even missing it a few times in the process.

In fact, don't even ask yourself if you enjoyed reinforcing your units. There's no reason to because you can just turn it off. Wow, now you have your user involvement again. Amazing. Or is it simply that you dislike the fact that the game is being made more accessible to noobs and console players. Just say that instead man. Jesus.


yes i enjoy doing user control reinforcement and vaulting over walls

it is part of the command and control.

it's no different from controlling the tanks to face the front or when to disengage auto fire.

your examples of reloading ammo and fuel is just fantasy and never in coh.


its all about having the right amount of user involvement.

again why not ask for an auto retreat? you can set from your base, a global %hp when to retreat. what you think of this?

how about all tanks have access to crew repairs

all factions can build repair bunkers

will this help you to focus better flanking and attacking?

in fact why bother about designing map resources layout? just give both teams 50-50 mirror access to fuel and ammo.

so it comes down to your build order choices and how you control the units in battle.
17 Jan 2023, 04:03 AM
#54
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1324

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2023, 02:23 AMmrgame2
yes i enjoy doing user control reinforcement and vaulting over walls


Ok. I don't. Simple as.

your examples of reloading ammo and fuel is just fantasy and never in coh.


Yeah, because that was my point. They were never included because it wasn't conducive to the actual gameplay that relic wanted to have. Unlike other rts games, you don't have to micromanage these things. Why not? I mean, surely it would boost user involvement immensely to now have to pay attention to munitions and fuel supply lines!

Clearly if you want your user involvement, you should have no issue with adding these things in, as it can only increase the amount of user involvement.

its all about having the right amount of user involvement.


And that is a line drawn in the sand at an arbitrary point. I literally don't care that there is an option to auto reinforce, and you're going to have to provide an actually good reason for me to start.

how about all tanks have access to crew repairs


I don't see why not, but that's not what we're talking about here.

all factions can build repair bunkers


I don't see why not, but that's not what we're talking about here.

again why not ask for an auto retreat? you can set from your base, a global %hp when to retreat. what you think of this?


If we're going to be completely honest here, this isn't actually that unreasonable. In real life, humans have this thing called "morale", and "self-preservation" that can cause them to run away before every single man in their unit is gunned down before their eyes. But still, that's not what we're talking about here.

will this help you to focus better flanking and attacking?


I don't think you really need to ask me this dude. Like really, the answer is obvious. Of course it would.

in fact why bother about designing map resources layout? just give both teams 50-50 mirror access to fuel and ammo.


This might be some kind of scathing rebuke if this wasn't already the CoH 2 community approach to map design 90 percent of the time, which isn't the case in CoH 3, where in the 3v3 airfield map, one side has easier access to fuel where the other has easier access to munitions. Well, at least that's the map's overall theoretical design. In practice it doesn't work exactly that way, but still, the point stands.

so it comes down to your build order choices and how you control the units in battle.


Dear god. A game where your build order and how you control units in battle decide who the winner is and not who snorts the most cocaine/ does the most adderall?? I don't think I could live with myself. I mean just imagine... The better tactician wins the game??? In an RTT?!?! I just can't. You know what? I take everything back.



17 Jan 2023, 04:43 AM
#55
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1324



psst.

don't try logic and elaborate answers here


But I like arguing :crazy:
17 Jan 2023, 06:46 AM
#56
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 306

few case of reinforcement in COH:
- Saving MP for bigger Unit
- Spending MP for best some priority unit like Vet 3, Elite squad. Especially on Filed ( For ambulance, Halftrack).
Why you had to be so complicated for only 2 case ?. Just turn on-off Auto-Reinforcement 2 time and press F on right unit.
Only thing make ppl hate Auto-Reinforcement is favor Halftrack, FWB, Ambulance big by a big magrin.
Yes, DAK OP because of it too
17 Jan 2023, 07:52 AM
#57
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2263 | Subs: 1

Reinforcing is now more of a choice than a tiring chore you have to do all the time
17 Jan 2023, 08:22 AM
#58
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17900 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2023, 02:23 AMmrgame2


yes i enjoy doing user control reinforcement and vaulting over walls

it is part of the command and control.

it's no different from controlling the tanks to face the front or when to disengage auto fire.

your examples of reloading ammo and fuel is just fantasy and never in coh.


its all about having the right amount of user involvement.

again why not ask for an auto retreat? you can set from your base, a global %hp when to retreat. what you think of this?

how about all tanks have access to crew repairs

all factions can build repair bunkers

will this help you to focus better flanking and attacking?

in fact why bother about designing map resources layout? just give both teams 50-50 mirror access to fuel and ammo.

so it comes down to your build order choices and how you control the units in battle.

You're just shitposting at this point and the core of your problem seems to be disappointment that enemies at your level will no longer forget to reinforce their squads when things get more intense.

If it is such a fun and micro adventure making you feel like the 1337 pro your momma always wanted you to be, but skill circumstances prevented it before, then turn it off, but I don't want to check your replay in the future and see it on.
17 Jan 2023, 11:01 AM
#59
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 309 | Subs: 1

I think HTs shouldn't have auto-reinforce and heal. Technically, HTs in CoH2 have the same capabilities (reinforce and heal), but it took some micro, which is fair, I think. Having all of this automatically, is a bit too much imo.
17 Jan 2023, 11:17 AM
#60
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17900 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2023, 11:01 AMGarrett
I think HTs shouldn't have auto-reinforce and heal. Technically, HTs in CoH2 have the same capabilities (reinforce and heal), but it took some micro, which is fair, I think. Having all of this automatically, is a bit too much imo.

What does it bring?
What does it improve if you have to input couple more actions?
All it does it make you spam additional button.
There is no skill involved in that.
There is no micro involved in that.
There is no planning involved in that.
There is no immersion involved in that.
It does not improve combat, it does not improve overall experience, it does not make you better at the game.
You just mash one more button every X seconds.

This is like complaining that in SC2 you could control more then 12 units in the same control group and arguing it was somehow less skill involving.
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