I do agree with a lot of what OP said. As soon as I saw Falls and Commandos in tech test I was flabbergasted as to why they had snares (granted COH3 snare mechanics makes this less OP but it's still questionable). Anti-everything Luftwaffe loiter is a travesty when Sector Overwatch in COH2 is universally hated as a "Iwin" button. Easy 8 buffs show how easy it is to push game into full-on call-in meta. The list does indeed go on...
I think the balance team has done a good job overall but I'm not sure if it's just hubris on part of them thinking they can make these things work this time around? Or maybe they just were scared to be accused of re-skinning COH2 and keeping too much of the same mechanics?
Hard to tell why they felt the need to introduce this nonsense all over again, but I think it has less to do with hubris but a lack of research. It shouldn't be hard to find out why these things didn't work, yet they probably didn't pay attention and just went along with it. It is baffling how many mistakes they repeated in this game, things they should have learnt by now...
Well, that was an interesting read. Always good to see some good old right-wing propaganda in a video game forum. At least, it is not concealed this time
Relic at this point is just not competent enough to make COH3 as good as it should/could be. I have given up on this.
Unfortunately COH2 has gotten very boring as well and there is no new content so COH is dying in general. Well done Relic.
Maybe we will get COH2 remastered in a few years but even that`s going to flop unless Relic hires new devs. Then there is the economic situation surrounding them. They have been cutting corners when developing COH3 already. Considering how poorly COH3 is doing this might have been their last game.
I tried to go back to CoH2 for a moment, just to be hit with the ultra-stupid controls (u for reverse, t for retreat...). And yes, the meta is stale as hell and will never change, which is less than optimal. I don't want to return to CoH2, but I have low hopes for 3...
I preached this all week 1 of the game launching. COH3 literally has half the player base of COH2. Voidtrain comes out today!!.
I’ve tried to COHPE. In reality. All good things eventually must end. I don’t see how Relic can turn the player base around even with another patch. Considering the last patch did nothing to retain players.
I still blame the COH1 clowns. The game feels off. The “tactical” “strategy” feels washed. Insane amount of punishment removed from the game. Also just skill influenced mechanics that made the game interesting/fun. Big wipes, grenades on retreat. Crush/light vehicle pushing. Punishing players for over extending and being greedy.
Since my twitch ban. I have played 1s and they are decent. But team games is the life of COH and team games in COH3 are 1000 times worse than COH2. I’ve said it on stream before. But in all the COH3 games I’ve played. I have not had any EPIC moments similar to what COH2 can give me. The twinkle in my eye during a big engagement in COH2 has not been replicated in COH3.
But yea all your points are valid. The amount of time required to fix this game outweighs the patience of the community. Indicators being the less than 3000 player base that’s continuously dropping. But GLHF!!!
Yes, I understand that. Even when watching casts by Tightrope, they don't catch me at all like the ones of CoH2 matches do. They somehow lack the oompfh, where it is really hard to pinpoint what the actual problem is. Most likely it is a mix of several problems coming together. Team games are pretty rough atm; between the small player base, even more necessity to stick to the meta than in CoH2, leavers, extremely unbalanced teams, and just stupid design decisions, plus limited and bad maps it is hard to see why this is the case.
When you play CoH3 for the first time, you come across many gameplay and balance decisions, which are simply mind-boggling. Now, if this was their first CoH, this could be understandable. But they have two games to look at. Yet they included the following things from the other two games, which they had to learn were just either hated or simply broken/nonsensical:
- Loiters: Why are they even in the game? They are a braindead ability that everyone already hated in CoH2. Initially, they were of course even more broken than in 2, and even now they are just dumb and shouldn't be in the game
- Durable main line infantry with very good at: Remember Schreck Volk blobs? They are back baby, stronger than ever. Be it in the form of Boys or Jägers!
- Unbalanced AA: What a nice idea to give one faction an aa-tool that forces you to drop paras in your own base or risk losing them. While the other factions don't even know what AA means.
- Sim City: Our favourite is/was back! Sim City. This time even more extrem. Faster, harder, stronger.
- Forward reinforce. You remember how they literally had to change this from 2? Well, the message certainly didn't come through here.
- Elite infantry with excessive snare availability? Because why have a stone/scissors/paper principle when your specialist can fulfill any role!
- Calling in units that can instantly use their abilities. MG in a house? Simply drop Fpios, drop satchel, problem solved. No cooldown. Falls also don't require weapon upgrades... just like before they had to change it in 2.
- At guns being able to shoot through anything. Sounds like the Pak43, but in fact every at gun can now do this in CoH3. Thanks to the mighty patch overreaction (without ofc fixing the real problems like at gun survivability)
- Call-in meta. Call-ins are back on the menu boys! Because who wants to play the way the game is intended when you can build one tech building and do the rest via call-ins? It's not like this was something that they painstakingly had to fix in 2, but whatever I guess?
- Talking about call-ins, what about combat groups (when you call in more than just one unit, see EZ8 for example). They changed this for most abilities in CoH2 (mostly by putting the new unit behind tech), because more often than not, you don't want another engi squad or whatever the game "generously" gives your "for free".
- Healing: Why is healing so stupidly distributed once more. Why does DAK need a truck that costs pop cap for a simple base heal? This is a bit like in CoH2 before they introduced medics for Brits, where you had to rely on section healing... that's less than optimal.
- Etc. etc., I bet there are so many things I have forgotten right now.
Now, you might say "but they fixed it already/are going to fix it". Maybe. But that's not the point. The fact that they understand so little about their own game, is just painful. And yes, I know, I know, new developer team and what not. But still, have they never seen CoH in their life before? Didn't they do any research? I think this is just another proof of the conceptual laziness that went into this game and it is frankly insulting that we are having to discuss the same nonsensical stuff once more... discussions we already had before.
It is insulting how little Relic has learned (or try to learn?) from previous CoHs. The horrendous launch aside, how can you be so oblivious to your own game?
Mainline infantry with super strong at? Check
Loiters even more busted than in CoH2? Check
AA extremely unevenly distributed? Check
SimCity extreme? Check
Units that are absolute dogshit but monster broken once you buy x amount of upgrades? Check
Denying USF any meaningful arty (not even Scotts and Priests available)? Check
Call-in fucking meta? Check
How can you fuck up so hard, these things have been on CoH1 and CoH2 and it took a long time to fix them. Now, they are in the game once more. Wtf why?
To be honest playing the game is fun and the TTK feels completely alright. Watching streams is a little bit different I would admit.
But for me the focus on 1v1 was alrdy boring in CoH2. Maybe people have forgot but in the last year of CoH2 you saw in 8 of 10 games Soviets vs. Wehr matchups on the same maps and in the end Isildur won.
It would have been more exiting to see some great 2v2 action instead of the same 1v1 stuff every 6 weeks. Some bigger breaks would have also helped the 1v1 ML. For my personal taste there were just too many tourneys.
I agree, there was (and is) a lack of diversity and way too much focus on 1v1s, which feels like a self-declared elite in their ivory tower.
But for CoH3, a lot of the problems come from not having proper replay and casting tools and from the lackluster game sounds and effects.. the ooomph is missing, so to say.
It is one of the worst maps in all of CoH, easily up there with the Semoskis or Oka Winters of CoH. The fuel distribution is extremely stupid and easily leads to stopms. Vehicles are useless with the dumb pathfinding, and it's only encouraging either blobbing or hardcore camping (particularly with really dumb high cover positions). The map is basically a show case of everything that's wrong with CoH3.
Too "soft" on Relic as usual ... Bringing up COH2 launch is totally pointless. It`s not an excuse. Not sure why AE feels the need to bring this up 124945334 times on Reddit and now on Youtube. I get it, he wants COH3 to become a success and wants people to stay optimistic but this is ridiculous.
The problem with COH3 is, I said it before, a lack of talent, effort and passion. They are simply incompetent. The only thing that can save COH3 is Relic (re-)hiring competent devs and most of all an "artistic update". The icons, main menu and UI look like they were outsourced to a 5USD/hour Indian "designer" on Fiverr. The fucking faction icons are especially bad and make me want to puke. This crap can be made in 5 minutes on MS Paint. How the fuck does it find its way into a full-priced game?
I made a threat about how coh3 is going to flop during the multiplayer beta and everything I brought up has proven to be true. If you are not high on hopium and actually see things for how they are you will realize 5 minutes after starting up COH3 that this game is not a worthy successor. It`s just not engaging and feels plastic compared to COH1/2.
Exactly, stop legitimising this behaviour by giving companies like relic (and there are so much more) a pass. Stuff like "but CoH2..." or "but BF2142..." is just not useful when discussing CoH3. Objectively, relic has fucked up hard
, and that is not only in terms of incompetency and inactivity, but also by actively lying to the player base over and over again. This is not a case of "poor relic, they are trying", this is blatant anti-consumerism to make an extra buck here and there.
I get it, we love the game and want it to succeed, but that doesn't mean giving in to blood-sucking monetary practices by shady companies gaslighting us. If AE and so many others emphasise that the game could become great over time, you should ask yourself: Do we have so much time? The player base is massively receding, just checked steamcharts today and it went back by 40% over the last 30 days. Even if the game would be
actually good in the next months, this wouldn't necessarily mean that we would see a great return of players or an influx of new players. That's the reality of this subscription-like model, where we pay for unfinished products and have to hope that they become over time. Because if they don't or are too slow to get better, they die fast (see Anthem, Fallout 76, or BFV).
Hopefully their English will become better...