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CoH2 Summer 2021 Balance Patch - BETA

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13 Aug 2021, 14:21 PM
#61
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289



All faction has hard time to counter blob.
Btumbar can die easy from blob of ptrs or ...

shrek blob
ptrs blob
infantry section with bren blob
rifleman with bar blob
ober blob
....

Im playing OKW most of time, and I see a lot blob in usf and ukf, and less from soviet.
They all blobing allies and axis. with soviet you have counter with zis, demo charge and so on.
other has too but its soft counter


Mg can easily die from bren or bar if they are not in green cover and they are slow to rotate and pin. they just need to move one troop to other side.

double mg is the best counter to blob in early game. but still this not good. you can break game easily with spamming every thing, infantry, tank, arti ...

There should be bad punishment for blobing unit like that. not just soft punishment.

MG and other think are soft punishment. they need a lot of macro to handle a blob.
Its not fair blobing need no macro, and you need to macro everything to handle that if you dont want to blob.


I agree soft counters arent enough. Back when all factions had somw cheesy one shot wiping gimmicks blobbing imo was less common. Since most of these where put in line or nerfed out of the game blobbing is much easier and safer. Imo axis and brits still have some power left to counter blobs with massive damage units. Su has next to nothing stock, they katty only comes to mind and usf has nothing i can think off stock. Making blobbing vs them much easier and forcing usf to blob to stay in the game.
Okw also still trades so well early on and has mp to spare unlike usf.

Some ff modifier on blobs to take damage from tank shells as sandbags can do now can help and or increased aim time for the blobbers inf esp for their lmg's or bars etc.
13 Aug 2021, 15:32 PM
#62
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8


And neither does ST now. Still before the projectile fix AVRE was supperior to ST, with fix ST become supperior due to range, now it has no range and AVRE gets projectile fix aswell.

And yet, somehow, its ST that was meta OP problem, not AVRE.

I know its hard and it hurts inside, but sometimes you have to accept that axis really OP and move on.
13 Aug 2021, 15:40 PM
#63
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Sturmtiger should be 700mp 200 fuel and immobile while reloading. Repair crit should not be available when reloading and it should be able to be decrewed if hit while reloading.

Current proposed nerfs are not enough.
13 Aug 2021, 15:48 PM
#64
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Aug 2021, 15:32 PMKatitof

And yet, somehow, its ST that was meta OP problem, not AVRE.

I know its hard and it hurts inside, but sometimes you have to accept that axis really OP and move on.


Its commander was meta (and still is) not the ST itself, at least before the projectile fix, because with it ST indeed become OP. Even when ST sucked ass, people picked Elite armor like there is no tommorow.

But the point is if 221 wasnt in Elite armor, you would have seen ST much rarely. For the same reason AVRE isn't a meta, because eveyone are either using Mobile Assault or Commandos. If the commander with AVRE isnt a meta one, it doesnt mean that the unit is gonna be fine with the recent changes.
13 Aug 2021, 16:03 PM
#65
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

Sturmtiger should be 700mp 200 fuel and immobile while reloading. Repair crit should not be available when reloading and it should be able to be decrewed if hit while reloading.

Current proposed nerfs are not enough.


Amen to that
13 Aug 2021, 16:23 PM
#66
avatar of Letzte Bataillon

Posts: 195

The entire point of the Sturmtiger's manual reload was having the ability to choose where to do so because of the now defunct possibility of it being decrewed.

Now there is no point to the manual reload. Either return the choice of where to reload by making it immobile while doing so or make it reload automatically like the AVRE.

The crew literally opens the hatch and reloads this monster with the integrated crane, it's a thematically and mechanically perfect modification.
13 Aug 2021, 17:22 PM
#67
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Aug 2021, 14:09 PMAzxc
I believe the problem of ST isn't the attack range, it is the fast reload time and the ability to reload while moving.

I think it is better to keep its current range but to nerf its reload time and it has to be stationary while reloading, that should make the ST less annoying on the allies side while OKW players still feel powerful when firing the nuke. I think it is also more realistic, a massive assault tank that is slow, clumsy but powerful when used correctly.


Been saying that for a while, Sturmtiger should be immobile when reloading, not load a shell right after firing, the range is fine, it would be unusable shit at 35 range
13 Aug 2021, 17:34 PM
#68
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

You can always add damage modifiers while its reloading. While abandon is stupid and abusable mechanic on ST, making ST take like x2 damage and immobile while reloading will pretty much much recreate original design.
13 Aug 2021, 17:43 PM
#69
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

You can always add damage modifiers while its reloading. While abandon is stupid and abusable mechanic on ST, making ST take like x2 damage and immobile while reloading will pretty much much recreate original design.

Yes
First and foremost the set up on the move bug needs to go. The unit CAN'T be balanced around that, it effevtively extent its range to 5+ extra meters
13 Aug 2021, 17:50 PM
#70
avatar of cooper47

Posts: 26



I agree soft counters arent enough. Back when all factions had somw cheesy one shot wiping gimmicks blobbing imo was less common. Since most of these where put in line or nerfed out of the game blobbing is much easier and safer. Imo axis and brits still have some power left to counter blobs with massive damage units. Su has next to nothing stock, they katty only comes to mind and usf has nothing i can think off stock. Making blobbing vs them much easier and forcing usf to blob to stay in the game.
Okw also still trades so well early on and has mp to spare unlike usf.

Some ff modifier on blobs to take damage from tank shells as sandbags can do now can help and or increased aim time for the blobbers inf esp for their lmg's or bars etc.


Personally, I have a hard time handling usf blob without mg.
and as OKW I don't have access to mg.

USF and OKW most of the time blobing, even in 1v1. ( Im not talking in higher rate )

Blob is success because tank and vehicle is not very good to infantry, and the player who blob only need to see one part of the map. so he can easily dodge grenades very easily.

in other side if you want to counter it you need a lot of macro, and after that you may win the battle cause of RNG.

If you go tank, they put anti tank weapon on infantry and kill tank! Panzer can die from ptrs blob so easily. its panzer! its a tank. they dont even spend fuel on anything.


If someone want to say there is counter for it and you need to learn just go and see skippy channel and how he broke the game.

this is not strategy game anymore. this is just some fun for the player who blob.

and it seems developer like blob, they nerfed most unit that can wipe blob. they added raid section and now ukf blobing with that. I dont understand why they dont give each faction very good unit without commander to wipe blob easily.

13 Aug 2021, 19:12 PM
#71
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



Personally, I have a hard time handling usf blob without mg.
and as OKW I don't have access to mg.

USF and OKW most of the time blobing, even in 1v1. ( Im not talking in higher rate )

Blob is success because tank and vehicle is not very good to infantry, and the player who blob only need to see one part of the map. so he can easily dodge grenades very easily.

in other side if you want to counter it you need a lot of macro, and after that you may win the battle cause of RNG.

If you go tank, they put anti tank weapon on infantry and kill tank! Panzer can die from ptrs blob so easily. its panzer! its a tank. they dont even spend fuel on anything.


If someone want to say there is counter for it and you need to learn just go and see skippy channel and how he broke the game.

this is not strategy game anymore. this is just some fun for the player who blob.

and it seems developer like blob, they nerfed most unit that can wipe blob. they added raid section and now ukf blobing with that. I dont understand why they dont give each faction very good unit without commander to wipe blob easily.


There's no blob issue. Use green cover and pick strictly favourable engagements, retreating at the right moment, and you'll do fine
13 Aug 2021, 20:39 PM
#72
avatar of cooper47

Posts: 26


There's no blob issue. Use green cover and pick strictly favourable engagements, retreating at the right moment, and you'll do fine


As i say just see skippy youtube...
13 Aug 2021, 21:12 PM
#73
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 682

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Aug 2021, 13:26 PMJacK_Qc
Great change,

UKF is definetly too manpower heavy.

You just look at IS coming out at 280MP a 4man squad vs wehr 240MP also 4 man squad.

wehr have access to :
-FREE LMG upgrade
-FREE Snare
-FREE grenade
So 3 Squads of fully upgraded grenadier is 720MP

Now with new reduction, 3 Squads of 5 mans with grenade and bren Infantery section is 1115 MP !




Let's make each gren cost 370 then, great idea. We'll ignore the part where teching is necessary for half the shit you listed.
14 Aug 2021, 06:13 AM
#74
avatar of Clarity

Posts: 479

Not sure why pop cap on MG's is being increased but not AT guns.
14 Aug 2021, 06:24 AM
#75
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



As i say just see skippy youtube...

I don't see how watching a teamgame memevideo maker can help me understand something I don't know about this game
14 Aug 2021, 06:25 AM
#76
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Aug 2021, 06:13 AMClarity
Not sure why pop cap on MG's is being increased but not AT guns.

You are absolutely right, popcap should be increased for AT guns
14 Aug 2021, 06:53 AM
#77
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

sounds like crazy buffs to brits....

and why the mortar smoke keeps getting buffed? i think it is bad for ost static plays. axis mg also get a nerf...

i mean if grens can go h2h with usf and brit infantry, that wont be so bad, but the mortar will tilt the encounters even more
14 Aug 2021, 09:51 AM
#78
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

All Sandbags


Imo instead of making it easier to destroy cover it should be harder to to spam cover and better tools to deal with cover.

Making cover harder to spam would make good map design more important.

Making certain tools like mortar better vs cover could create the need to create more specialized unit and adapt to counter the tools the enemy uses.

By making cover easier to hit one will simply be able to destroy cover with ATG and TDs from safety further reducing the need to use any other type of unit.

40mm Bofors AA Emplacement

Population from 8 to 6

These type of change should be limited to commander that rely on emplacement.

If UKF need a cheaper AA units I would suggest a different root. Make the AA with lower pop or even cheaper but allow only AA mode.

Then offer an upgrade that allows the weapon to engage ground targets increasing pop.

British Assault Officer

The unit is simply buffed through the roof.

I would suggest that unit cost reduced further possibly to 240 but it fighting capability is also decreased. In the current implementation the units combines great fighting power (better or similar to doctrinal officer) while also providing great utility.

Churchill AVRE


The "wipe machine" design of these units is simply bad.

My suggestion would be to hard cap max causalities by unit and adding more utility.
In addition reduce the abnormal acceleration and rotation of these units.
MG dps could be increased.


Churchill Mk VII Infantry Tank


Reduce the abnormal acceleration and rotation of these units.


Assault Artillery

The combination of A.A. and JT should be avoided in my opinion.


Sturmtiger



As for AVRE imo a hard cap should be introduced and more utility added.
MG dps could be increased.

Imo the unit should be move to different commander.

Ostruppen



The grenadier ver2 design is simply bad.

Imo the unit need a new design offering more utility and fighting power. That could include:
light AT design with At rifles
more utility like re-crewing weapons or having molotov
and so on


203mm B-4 Howitzer


Suppression should simply be removed. It forces retreats or dooms units if fired on retreat point.

If there is a need for it there could be a new critical.

The unit could also see a change in design that make it more distinct from the ML-20


Major




So the unit will now be able to scout enemy unit, use smoke grenades and then call barrage on enemy line while still being able to call stock reckon planes?

Imo the change is a step in the wrong direction for a dirty cheap unit.




MMX
14 Aug 2021, 10:32 AM
#79
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

i think these are mostly good changes, except maybe for the sniper nerf.

however, regarding the sturmtiger, could we get a statement if this issue is on the radar at all?


Also you really need to address the fast fire bug. Managed to reproduce it by moving the ST, aiming outside of the max range and it would start the firing animation while driving into the range and instantly fire when the target is inside the range.
Of course, the bug is not there if the ST needs to rotate before firing. So just aim outside of the max range, ST begins the animation before it can even fire, and once it is inside the range, it fires instantly



I fired around the white dot, but it was beyond the 45 range. The center of the AOE circle was beyond and it still fired, rotated a bit but did not inch forward


IMO the range decrease alone will be pretty much useless if you can still yolo in from 50+ m, way beyond enemy vision range, and fire right away without giving your opponent any chance to react in time.
14 Aug 2021, 11:44 AM
#80
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Aug 2021, 10:32 AMMMX
i think these are mostly good changes, except maybe for the sniper nerf.

however, regarding the sturmtiger, could we get a statement if this issue is on the radar at all?



IMO the range decrease alone will be pretty much useless if you can still yolo in from 50+ m, way beyond enemy vision range, and fire right away without giving your opponent any chance to react in time.


Both AVRE and Sturmtiger should not ever, and I mean never, fire beyond 35 range (standard infantry sight). Maybe a vet5 ST could fire at 40 range, but you really need to remove the fast fire bug.
Animation starting while the ST is driving into the range and just instantly firing is beyond broken.
A) You can't spot it
B) Even if you hear it, react fast, the AOE is large enough that the retreating infantry won't be able to get out of the blast radius in time
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