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Why free medic is harder to get for some faction?

19 Jul 2021, 15:39 PM
#1
avatar of cooper47

Posts: 26

First, let's see what is needed for medic in factions.

Soviet:
Headquarter: 200 MP

Ostheer:
Bunker: 150 MP for bunker + 60 ammo
Infantry: Veterency 1 + 10 ammo for each usage

OKW:
Battlegroup: 70 MP 15 fuel for truck + 150 MP 10 fuel for convert + 50 MP 10 fuel for upgrade
= 270 MP + 35 fuel

Sturmpioneer supply: 45 ammo 3 usage

USF:
Ambulance: 250 MP + 10 fuel + 2 pop cap

UKF:
Medic squad: 180 MP + 30 fuel for Platoon upgrade and 180 MP and 2 pop cap for squad
= 360 MP + 30 fuel + 2 pop cap
Infantry upgrade: 45 ammo


As you see OKW has a hard time reaching free medic and needs a lot of resources and time.

UKF can get free medic after squad upgrade so they haven't issue.

Ostheer need a unit in base to build that bunker so it takes time.


As you see for the soviet it's easy to get medic.

USF is easy too. also, they have powerful medic (ambulance is powerful and it worse 10 fuel).

For UKF if you go medic it's hard to reach and if you go infantry you get it easy and you don't need even MP but harder to macro so they are medium for that. (in my opinion, it's still easy)


Ostheer has medium timing and resources. ( As I say free medic not 10 ammo for each use ) I just don't understand why I need to use time for one infantry to build bunker. other factions can get it only from upgrades.

Imagine you need to retreat most of your troop and for medic, you have to waste a lot of time and the other players can push forward while you do that. keep in mind Ostheer is defensive in the early game.

For balance I suggest an upgrade like infantry section to get a free medic, instead of 1 veterency and 10 ammo for each time.

Or add upgrade in HQ with exact same resources.

OKW has a very very hard time. if you need a medic technically you should skip mechanized.
There is no way to get medic for free only. if you go battlegroup you get access to support gun and mg (without mechanized upgrade) so I understand why these resources are needed, but why there is no other way to get only medic for free?
35 fuel is too much for medic. I think for balance this it's better to make medic in headquarter too. or at least make it cheaper for medic only and remove mg and support access for this.

If you want to go mechanized and free medic, you will lose a lot of fuel and since you have very expensive tanks, you will lose for sure

I think that's why OKW is weaker. usually, players go to battlegroup and they don't have a light tank. they should wait for panzer 4 and need a lot of macro and experience to handle enemy light tank with short range AT and panzersherek upgrade.

UPDATE
for clarifation
  • Free medic mean once you spend resources you get it until the end game
  • For OKW I don't care about MG or support gun that I can get from tech truck, I'm talking about a medic, so don't tell me for this much resource you can get other units
  • Back tech for OKW only work in the late game, usually player do that if they want to go king tiger
  • I see a lot of players use OST bunker from teammates, because they want to go mech. if you don't have a good teammate you have a hard time
  • I'm not saying get OKW big early advantage, at least give okw medic in mid-game if they go mechanize
  • Lot of player say OKW has big early advantage. without medic, all unit in this game are week even shock troop. so dont compare like this.
20 Jul 2021, 09:34 AM
#2
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 257

battlegroup is your tech structure and you'll inevitably get it, you are not paying so much resources for medics only
20 Jul 2021, 11:46 AM
#3
avatar of cooper47

Posts: 26

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jul 2021, 09:34 AMKatukov
battlegroup is your tech structure and you'll inevitably get it, you are not paying so much resources for medics only


You can skip battlegroup and in that case you cant get free medic!
20 Jul 2021, 11:51 AM
#4
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17547 | Subs: 8



You can skip battlegroup and in that case you cant get free medic!

First of all, if you pay for it, its not free, not a single faction gets "free medic".

Second, don't skip it if you want medics or backtech if you got your 1st med out.
You're trying to create a problem where none exists.
20 Jul 2021, 12:20 PM
#5
avatar of cooper47

Posts: 26

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jul 2021, 11:51 AMKatitof

First of all, if you pay for it, its not free, not a single faction gets "free medic".

Second, don't skip it if you want medics or backtech if you got your 1st med out.
You're trying to create a problem where none exists.


By free I mean after you pay its free, for example sturmpioneer supply medic is not free, you have to pay it each time you need.


I explain that in my post about dont skip it for medic only! please read it.

There is a huge unbalance problem here. You stuck in tech path for for medic in OKW! this is not true for other faction.

I need a free medic and I need panzer 2 to handle blob, what can I do?
My tech tree is dependent on medic, not strategy! Or I have skip medic and use ammo each time for that and get panzer 2.
This is so unbalanced.

I don't understand why you can't see the problem. my tech tree is optional, in one of them I get medic in other I cant. this is not true for other factions.
20 Jul 2021, 13:01 PM
#6
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 231



By free I mean after you pay its free, for example sturmpioneer supply medic is not free, you have to pay it each time you need.


I explain that in my post about dont skip it for medic only! please read it.

There is a huge unbalance problem here. You stuck in tech path for for medic in OKW! this is not true for other faction.

I need a free medic and I need panzer 2 to handle blob, what can I do?
My tech tree is dependent on medic, not strategy! Or I have skip medic and use ammo each time for that and get panzer 2.
This is so unbalanced.

I don't understand why you can't see the problem. my tech tree is optional, in one of them I get medic in other I cant. this is not true for other factions.


The problem is OKW, if you could get medics without having to get battle group why would you build it.

What your asking for is to give OKW overwhelming early advantage. You would get a Luchs out with good gameplay at 6 mins maybe even faster depending on how game goes along with healed units that dont cost much to reinforce. Literally every player would go mechanized.
20 Jul 2021, 13:12 PM
#7
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 257



You can skip battlegroup and in that case you cant get free medic!

your loss lol
20 Jul 2021, 13:51 PM
#8
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jul 2021, 09:34 AMKatukov
battlegroup is your tech structure and you'll inevitably get it


T1 as UKF is something that one inevitably gets. T1 as OKW is not something that one inevitably gets. When one goes T2 he has to spend 25 fuel for backteching + 10 fuel for medic. No other faction has to backtech for medics


Aside from this: I think OKW situation is fine. At least when using 221 which can give meds too
20 Jul 2021, 14:22 PM
#9
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 257



T1 as UKF is something that one inevitably gets. T1 as OKW is not something that one inevitably gets.


done by no okw player ever



also nice gif stealing
20 Jul 2021, 14:23 PM
#10
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jul 2021, 14:22 PMKatukov


done by no okw player ever


So T2 is completely useless except for Stuka lategame?



jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jul 2021, 14:22 PMKatukov

also nice gif stealing


Oh sorry. Didn't know that you made it yourself
20 Jul 2021, 14:26 PM
#11
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 257



So T2 is completely invalid except for Stuka lategame?





Oh sorry. Didn't know that you made it yourself



i have personally been featured in the gif, shown as a man who plays allies in team mode. Also yeah the puma sucks L O L !!!!!!!!!
Pip
20 Jul 2021, 16:51 PM
#12
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1546

I'm not really seeing why something as basic as "free" healing should be attached to a particular tech path, honestly. It'd be as though USF could only buy the ambulance if they went Lieutenant.

I'm hoping CoH3 doesn't have anything similar.

Personally I'd like if OKW could build the medical truck for the equivalent of 200mp + 10f (Or perhaps some other value, not really certain what would be appropriate), and receive nothing except the Medics until further upgraded (Which would provide access to the LeIG, and then the subsequent upgrade to the Owl and FlakHT)

This way you'd be able to get healing, and then still "actually" be able to tech to Mechanised, rather than feeling somewhat "forced" to go Battlegroup units.

The truck would have to not count as "converted" until it has received further upgrades though, or it'll mess with unit upgrade timings.
20 Jul 2021, 18:11 PM
#13
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449

Frankly the only annoying thing about OKW medics is literally how long it takes to get them. The combination of sWs, BG set up, and then the medic upgrade itself takes a really long time.
20 Jul 2021, 18:31 PM
#14
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5268

Meh. Look at AT guns. 3 factions get them without trying, 2 have to go out of their way. It's called asymmetric balance. Economic choices are interesting and define the factions.
Soviet only pay 200, but have no means to get it anywhere but base non doc. USF have a pop cap but can move it where they need it. Ukf Tommy medics is broken effecient, okw have it tied to tech BUT also have alternatives, multiple squads including volks self heal eventually and sturms can drop crates.

Every faction is different and late war Germany having to make concessions in order to keep their men healthy is extremely on point for the faction.
20 Jul 2021, 18:50 PM
#15
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1796 | Subs: 1



You can skip battlegroup and in that case you cant get free medic!


It's a choice and something that can supplemented easily by things like Sturm med kits or Opel Ambulance in Firesturm. They've also gone out of their way to make back teching to Medics easier in a recent patch so it's easier than ever to go Mechanized then Medics if you really want to.
20 Jul 2021, 21:24 PM
#16
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 775

fully agree with thedarkarmadillo, asymmetric balance is the reason why different units in different factions have various difficulty accessing certain units/abilities etc and i think thats a good thing.

My only concern with OKW battle group healing is the time it takes to setup and also does anyone have any numbers on the healing speed of the OKW medics compared to other factions? sometimes i feel the healing of OKW units takes much longer and often find myself spending more time in base then i want to.
20 Jul 2021, 21:59 PM
#17
avatar of GreenDevil

Posts: 392

First, let's see what is needed for medic in factions.

Soviet:
Headquarter: 200 MP

Ostheer:
Bunker: 150 MP for bunker + 60 ammo
Infantry: Veterency 1 + 10 ammo for each usage

OKW:
Battlegroup: 70 MP 15 fuel for truck + 150 MP 10 fuel for convert + 50 MP 10 fuel for upgrade
= 270 MP + 35 fuel

Sturmpioneer supply: 45 ammo 3 usage

USF:
Ambulance: 250 MP + 10 fuel + 2 pop cap

UKF:
Medic squad: 180 MP + 30 fuel for Platoon upgrade and 180 MP and 2 pop cap for squad
= 360 MP + 30 fuel + 2 pop cap
Infantry upgrade: 45 ammo


As you see OKW has a hard time reaching free medic and needs a lot of resources and time.

UKF can get free medic after squad upgrade so they haven't issue.

Ostheer need a unit in base to build that bunker so it takes time.


As you see for the soviet it's easy to get medic.

USF is easy too. also, they have powerful medic (ambulance is powerful and it worse 10 fuel).

For UKF if you go medic it's hard to reach and if you go infantry you get it easy and you don't need even MP but harder to macro so they are medium for that. (in my opinion, it's still easy)


Ostheer has medium timing and resources. ( As I say free medic not 10 ammo for each use ) I just don't understand why I need to use time for one infantry to build bunker. other factions can get it only from upgrades.

Imagine you need to retreat most of your troop and for medic, you have to waste a lot of time and the other players can push forward while you do that. keep in mind Ostheer is defensive in the early game.

For balance I suggest an upgrade like infantry section to get a free medic, instead of 1 veterency and 10 ammo for each time.

OKW has a very very hard time. if you need a medic technically you should skip mechanized.
There is no way to get medic for free only. if you go battlegroup you get access to support gun and mg (without mechanized upgrade) so I understand why these resources are needed, but why there is no other way to get only medic for free?
35 fuel is too much for medic. I think for balance this it's better to make medic in headquarter too. or at least make it cheaper for medic only and remove mg and support access for this.

If you want to go mechanized and free medic, you will lose a lot of fuel and since you have very expensive tanks, you will lose for sure

I think that's why OKW is weaker. usually, players go to battlegroup and they don't have a light tank. they should wait for panzer 4 and need a lot of macro and experience to handle enemy light tank with short range AT and panzersherek upgrade.


In the early game as Ostheer, if you are being pressured hard and find it absolutely necessary to hold onto ground (Hitler madness) then drop in medical by plane (Luftwaffe doctrine) or use Grenadier Vet 1 heal ability and sacrifice munitions to heal in order to hold your ground.

As Ostheer you must counter-attack early, if they push you, make sure you have something in reserve to counter push or attack and cap in other areas of the map. Again, this buys you time.

As OKW simply use Sturmpio Vet 1 ability and drop medical supplies on the ground for instant healing.

I can't see the issue with what you are saying - every faction sacrifices in different ways.
21 Jul 2021, 02:44 AM
#18
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449


As OKW simply use Sturmpio Vet 1 ability and drop medical supplies on the ground for instant healing.

Medic crates are not Vet 1, they're stock. Unless you suggest abusing stun grenades for whatever reason.
21 Jul 2021, 03:43 AM
#19
avatar of GreenDevil

Posts: 392

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jul 2021, 02:44 AMSpoof

Medic crates are not Vet 1, they're stock. Unless you suggest abusing stun grenades for whatever reason.

Even better then.
21 Jul 2021, 06:07 AM
#20
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2762

He said Ost medic bunker is hard to obtain, but actually it is just building it with a retreated Gren/Pio, meanwhile waiting for be reinforce.
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