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Why free medic is harder to get for some faction?

25 Jul 2021, 22:31 PM
#21
avatar of cooper47

Posts: 26

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jul 2021, 06:07 AMPorygon
He said Ost medic bunker is hard to obtain, but actually it is just building it with a retreated Gren/Pio, meanwhile waiting for be reinforce.


Its harder not hard. in other faction you can do it without any unit, but in ost you need infantry to do it.

Also if you guys see the patch note in winter balance, they add option only for backteching medic.

but this is useless untill end game. Im not saying give OKW early advantage. I just say give free medic in both tech path.

If you go mech then you should be abale to get free medic only ( not for tech )
26 Jul 2021, 00:53 AM
#22
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 1072


I just say give free medic in both tech path.

If you go mech then you should be abale to get free medic only ( not for tech )


I will say give usf At gun in both tech path, either lieu or cap, if you go lieu you should be able to get the AT only. Same for soviet,if they go T1 they should be able to tech only get the zis.
Pip
26 Jul 2021, 12:15 PM
#23
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1545



I will say give usf At gun in both tech path, either lieu or cap, if you go lieu you should be able to get the AT only. Same for soviet,if they go T1 they should be able to tech only get the zis.


I just don't know that Medics are really equivalent to AT guns. Not going for the battlegroup already locks you out of your mortar, which I would argue is far more equivalent to not being able to access an AT gun, or MG.

Medics feels more like a "core" mechanic, like repairing vehicles or reinforcing. It's not /quite/ as vital as either of those, but it comes pretty close.
26 Jul 2021, 21:45 PM
#24
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 471

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jul 2021, 12:15 PMPip


Medics feels more like a "core" mechanic, like repairing vehicles or reinforcing. It's not /quite/ as vital as either of those, but it comes pretty close.


Agreed. Personally every faction should have a Soviet style HQ heal upgrade.

For example as Whermact to save space in my base I would gladly pay 150 manpower and 60 ammo for the Medics to be spawned from the HQ instead of having to make a Bunker in base and upgrade it.

Especially since there is a huge obsession with Forward HQs in COH2, it would make retreating to base a more attractive option or at least an alternative if it meant full retreats gave access to better/easier healing vs Forward Healing Options.
29 Jul 2021, 12:32 PM
#25
avatar of cooper47

Posts: 26

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jul 2021, 12:15 PMPip



Medics feels more like a "core" mechanic, like repairing vehicles or reinforcing. It's not /quite/ as vital as either of those, but it comes pretty close.


Totally agree, medic is a core mechanic. it's not something for balancing factions.
In OKW if you go mech, it's not possible at all to get the free medic. This is so unbalanced.
29 Jul 2021, 13:09 PM
#26
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 362



Totally agree, medic is a core mechanic. it's not something for balancing factions.
In OKW if you go mech, it's not possible at all to get the free medic. This is so unbalanced.


You need to back tech.

Just like USF needs to go both lieut & capt if he wants AT after Stuart.
29 Jul 2021, 17:19 PM
#27
avatar of cooper47

Posts: 26



You need to back tech.

Just like USF needs to go both lieut & capt if he wants AT after Stuart.


AT is not look like medic, in Wehrmacht and soviet you skip AT too. So when you needed you can go back tech.

As Pip says, its look like for USF you can only buy the ambulance if you go Lieutenant.
29 Jul 2021, 17:28 PM
#28
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1137



Totally agree, medic is a core mechanic. it's not something for balancing factions.
In OKW if you go mech, it's not possible at all to get the free medic. This is so unbalanced.


Okw has other powerfull traits other factions lack. So its actualy balanced that their medics require a specific path imo.
If you you want your stock superheavy (wich no other faction has btw) you need all your truck deployed anyway. Its just a choice to go 1 way or the other how to get that stock superheavy
What okw also has is that 2 out their 3 stock inf have self heal with vet next to the sturm medpacks.

Most factions and specificly su and usf need to tech a certain direction or backtech for at guns.

Pip
29 Jul 2021, 18:50 PM
#29
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1545



Okw has other powerfull traits other factions lack. So its actualy balanced that their medics require a specific path imo.
If you you want your stock superheavy (wich no other faction has btw) you need all your truck deployed anyway. Its just a choice to go 1 way or the other how to get that stock superheavy
What okw also has is that 2 out their 3 stock inf have self heal with vet next to the sturm medpacks.

Most factions and specificly su and usf need to tech a certain direction or backtech for at guns.



AT guns != Healing, is what I'm saying. I don't think that comparison is particularly fair at all.

Also: Vet 5 healing really isnt arguable to be a replacement for base healing at all. Self-heal should be removed, however.
29 Jul 2021, 21:37 PM
#30
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5263



AT is not look like medic, in Wehrmacht and soviet you skip AT too. So when you needed you can go back tech.

As Pip says, its look like for USF you can only buy the ambulance if you go Lieutenant.

But it's not. As okw you sre the only faction that starts with healing. You get 3 aoe crates, you also get self healing on multiple combat units (volks need this returned to vet3 however). Doctrinally you also get single crates on the 221 and ambulance like opel blitz.

Okw is extremely aggressive. Part of the trade off for this is either economic drain on healing or certain teching.
In a similar vein soviet squads are extremely durable, part of the trade off for that is large target sizes and only being able to heal in base while all other factions can heal on field (there are doctrinal exceptions however, like there is for okw)


I could absolutely see okw getting a pair of medics at base when medics are unlocked, but medics being in the medic truck is part of their design and removing that aspect could have unseen effects.


Look at it this way, both med and mech reduce bleed. Mech does so via unbleeding armour, and med does so via healing. One is offensive and one is defensive.

Returning volks self heal to vet 3 could be exceptional for helping with the feel of okw healing. They don't insta vet via shrek anymore so there is no reason for it to be so delayed. Okw was designed to function regardless of truck. It's just been nerfed out of them in the name of homogoniziation
30 Jul 2021, 10:33 AM
#31
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1137

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jul 2021, 18:50 PMPip


AT guns != Healing, is what I'm saying. I don't think that comparison is particularly fair at all.

Also: Vet 5 healing really isnt arguable to be a replacement for base healing at all. Self-heal should be removed, however.


This was about things being a core feuture or mechanic and its unfair that is locked at a specific tech. I am not saying AT equels healing. Self heal can be moved to vet 3 imo, at vet 5 its kinda pointless

The are slight differences in how faction get their power rolling. I used the atguns to show that okw has at at all times an healing requures backtech or specific tech path. And for other faction its the other way around.

Okw has more unique things then other factions that imo dont make it unfair that their "free" healing is a bit harder to get

31 Jul 2021, 06:38 AM
#32
avatar of cooper47

Posts: 26


But it's not. As okw you sre the only faction that starts with healing. You get 3 aoe crates, you also get self healing on multiple combat units (volks need this returned to vet3 however). Doctrinally you also get single crates on the 221 and ambulance like opel blitz.

Okw is extremely aggressive. Part of the trade off for this is either economic drain on healing or certain teching.
In a similar vein soviet squads are extremely durable, part of the trade off for that is large target sizes and only being able to heal in base while all other factions can heal on field (there are doctrinal exceptions however, like there is for okw)


I could absolutely see okw getting a pair of medics at base when medics are unlocked, but medics being in the medic truck is part of their design and removing that aspect could have unseen effects.


Look at it this way, both med and mech reduce bleed. Mech does so via unbleeding armour, and med does so via healing. One is offensive and one is defensive.

Returning volks self heal to vet 3 could be exceptional for helping with the feel of okw healing. They don't insta vet via shrek anymore so there is no reason for it to be so delayed. Okw was designed to function regardless of truck. It's just been nerfed out of them in the name of homogoniziation


3 aoe is good only if you have more than one troop in base. Otherwise its only work for one infantry.

tech is not medic, im not saying AT is not medic!

medic is core element. There is 5 factions, and 4 of them can get medic in all tech path.

OKW need back tech for medic, I understand OKW has other things, but its better to give them medic even if something need removed from OKW.
31 Jul 2021, 06:58 AM
#33
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 362



3 aoe is good only if you have more than one troop in base. Otherwise its only work for one infantry.

tech is not medic, im not saying AT is not medic!

medic is core element. There is 5 factions, and 4 of them can get medic in all tech path.

OKW need back tech for medic, I understand OKW has other things, but its better to give them medic even if something need removed from OKW.


Good example would be remove free repair and give medic instead then.
Pip
31 Jul 2021, 15:33 PM
#34
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1545



Good example would be remove free repair and give medic instead then.


It isnt a free repair, you still have to pay for it.
31 Jul 2021, 22:30 PM
#35
avatar of Ashmole

Posts: 58

I think the main issue I have with OPs post is the assumption that because the Soviet healing is the cheapest it is therefore the best out of all the factions.

Soviets pay onky 200 for a medic but can't move it and have zero abilities to heal on the battlefield (other than urban doctrine). You have to retreat units off the battlefield to retreat which can make it difficult to have good map control if done too often
Pip
31 Jul 2021, 23:06 PM
#36
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1545

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Jul 2021, 22:30 PMAshmole
I think the main issue I have with OPs post is the assumption that because the Soviet healing is the cheapest it is therefore the best out of all the factions.

Soviets pay onky 200 for a medic but can't move it and have zero abilities to heal on the battlefield (other than urban doctrine). You have to retreat units off the battlefield to retreat which can make it difficult to have good map control if done too often


Soviets can now heal on the battlefield with their Halftrack.
1 Aug 2021, 01:32 AM
#37
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 362

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Jul 2021, 15:33 PMPip


It isnt a free repair, you still have to pay for it.


I know it costs but, OP said:

By free I mean after you pay its free, for example sturmpioneer supply medic is not free, you have to pay it each time you need.


So I guess it is free repair in the context of this thread.
1 Aug 2021, 16:37 PM
#39
avatar of Ashmole

Posts: 58

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Jul 2021, 23:06 PMPip


Soviets can now heal on the battlefield with their Halftrack.

Yeah and so does every other faction. Few Soviet players will keep their half-track solely for that ability. They'll upgrade it to a quad which takes healing away.
Pip
1 Aug 2021, 20:55 PM
#40
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1545


Yeah and so does every other faction. Few Soviet players will keep their half-track solely for that ability. They'll upgrade it to a quad which takes healing away.


Every other faction except OST only has an HT doctrinally though, SOV and OST have it base. OKW doesnt even have a "halftrack" doctrinally, the Opel is the closest thing, and it's closer to the Ambulance, really.

Surely it doesnt matter that Soviet players "don't do it", anyway. They have it as a mobile healing option regardless.
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