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Black Prince Poll

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19 Jul 2021, 16:12 PM
#81
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1910 | Subs: 2

same point by the time the Germans decided to use the rockets a bridge head was already secured


The same point, tactical use, to destroy the bridge that supplied the Soviet group.
19 Jul 2021, 16:14 PM
#82
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 965

Currently a majority seems to be against the BP.

Imo that's a siginificant number considering it is a vote against a late game heavy tank (extra stuff).

19 Jul 2021, 16:15 PM
#83
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jul 2021, 15:58 PMGrittle


If the Maus, Panther 2, or Kugelblitz get added I would be just as mad as the Black Prince getting added.

The Sturmtiger, Ostwind, Pershing, and the Comet were all tanks where less than 40 saw service in WW2, all were added to COH at one point. The Black Prince had 6 prototypes and never saw service in WW2 this should not be added to COH.

Also, vehicles like the Sturmtiger shouldn't even be built in huge quantities. It serves a niche specialized role. to compare, the KV2 shares a similar role to the Sturmtiger and only about 200 were made. a very small amount compared to every other soviet tank made.

the Maus and panther 2 were not even out of the development stage, the kugelblitz may or may not have been used, the black prince was actually functional
19 Jul 2021, 16:16 PM
#84
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

Currently a majority seems to be against the BP.

Imo that's a siginificant number considering it is a vote against a late game heavy tank (extra stuff).

this site isn’t representative of the whole player base, most people don’t care
19 Jul 2021, 16:17 PM
#85
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

then stop crying about, of all the things to complain about it’s one unit, you’re acting like the game will be unrecognizable and you won’t be able to tell if it’s ww2 or not. It’s even worse you’re trying to make the game into something it’s not, coh was never about historical accuracy


Ofc it is one unit. Because, as you maybe already forgot, it is the only unit in CoH3 that was never used.

And I am trying to make the game into something it is not? As far as I remember there were no Maus or T 44 tanks in CoH2 ... in fact Germans even had Short barrel Panzer 4 in the singe player mode.

Oh ... and even the Devs. themselfes stated that they care about historical accuracy for CoH3 ... so stop with your "CoH is not about historical accuracy"

Historical accuracy is important to our team and we have been conducting exhaustive research in an effort to stay true to CoH3's setting.
Please continue to provide feedback on this subject and we'll take that all into consideration. Adding sources is a huge plus!



19 Jul 2021, 16:17 PM
#86
avatar of Grittle

Posts: 177

the Maus and panther 2 were not even out of the development stage, the kugelblitz may or may not have been used, the black prince was actually functional


They all never saw combat, so they should all not be in the game. It's not that hard to understand.
19 Jul 2021, 16:19 PM
#87
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1910 | Subs: 2

this site isn’t representative of the whole player base, most people don’t care


In fact, no - the tank is extremely unreliable and constantly breaks down, so it is obvious that this tank was abandoned because it exhausted the possibilities of Churchill's design and focused on the promising Centurion.
19 Jul 2021, 16:20 PM
#88
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 965

the Maus and panther 2 were not even out of the development stage, the kugelblitz may or may not have been used, the black prince was actually functional

There was a complete Maus tank... even before the Black Prince. The 2nd Maus wasn't fit with the turret... the first one was.

"In March 1944 the second prototype, the V2, was delivered. It differed in many details from the V1 prototype. In mid-1944, the V2 prototype was fitted with a powerplant and the first produced Maus turret. This turret was fitted with a 128 mm KwK 44 L/55 gun, a coaxial 75 mm KwK 44 L/36.5 gun and a coaxial 7.92 mm MG 34. The V1 prototype was supposed to be fitted with the second produced turret, but this never happened."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_VIII_Maus

So either we delete the BP or fully embrace the bullshit. if we don't care about which units were deployed, there is no reason the Maus shouldn't be ingame.
19 Jul 2021, 16:23 PM
#89
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760


There was a complete Maus tank... even before the Black Prince. The 2nd Maus wasn't fit with the turret... the first one was.

"In March 1944 the second prototype, the V2, was delivered. It differed in many details from the V1 prototype. In mid-1944, the V2 prototype was fitted with a powerplant and the first produced Maus turret. This turret was fitted with a 128 mm KwK 44 L/55 gun, a coaxial 75 mm KwK 44 L/36.5 gun and a coaxial 7.92 mm MG 34. The V1 prototype was supposed to be fitted with the second produced turret, but this never happened."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_VIII_Maus
the same prototype that was basically unusable because of its shit power plant
19 Jul 2021, 16:25 PM
#90
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760



Ofc it is one unit. Because, as you maybe already forgot, it is the only unit in CoH3 that was never used.

And I am trying to make the game into something it is not? As far as I remember there were no Maus or T 44 tanks in CoH2 ... in fact Germans even had Short barrel Panzer 4 in the singe player mode.

Oh ... and even the Devs. themselfes stated that they care about historical accuracy for CoH3 ... so stop with your "CoH is not about historical accuracy"




we’re talking about the game that had Pershing’s in Normandy and panther rounds bouncing off Sherman’s
19 Jul 2021, 16:26 PM
#91
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 965

the same prototype that was basically unusable because of its shit power plant
Unusable? You mean things that never make it beyond prototype stage because they are... you know... unusable?

So the BP was unusable and you think it belongs into the game.

However if a German unit is unusable it should stay out of the game.

That's some nice double standard.
19 Jul 2021, 16:26 PM
#92
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760



In fact, no - the tank is extremely unreliable and constantly breaks down, so it is obvious that this tank was abandoned because it exhausted the possibilities of Churchill's design and focused on the promising Centurion.
you just described 60% of German tanks in coh1/2
19 Jul 2021, 16:28 PM
#93
avatar of Grittle

Posts: 177

you just described 60% of German tanks in coh1/2


Most WW2 tanks in general were unreliable or had stupid design choices. like most early T34 variants lacking radios or the Tiger adding 50+ moving parts to save 10 pounds on a 50 ton tank.
19 Jul 2021, 16:29 PM
#94
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

Unusable? You mean things that never make it beyond prototype stage because they are... you know... unusable?

So the BP was unusable and you think it belongs into the game.

However if a German unit is unusable it should stay out of the game.

That's some nice double standard.

I’m not using a double standard, if relic decides to add the maus I wouldn’t care
19 Jul 2021, 16:31 PM
#95
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jul 2021, 16:28 PMGrittle


Most WW2 tanks in general were unreliable or had stupid design choices. like most early T34 variants lacking radios or the Tiger adding 50+ moving parts to save 10 pounds on a 50 ton tank.
since coh needs to be historically accurate as possible, let’s add it to the game
19 Jul 2021, 16:34 PM
#96
avatar of Grittle

Posts: 177

since coh needs to be historically accurate as possible, let’s add it to the game

I agree, limiting tank engagements would allow infantry play to be more prevalent, and allow the chance for a Japanese faction to be added as later DLC.
19 Jul 2021, 16:35 PM
#97
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1910 | Subs: 2

you just described 60% of German tanks in coh1/2


Have you read the article about the Black Prince? It clearly states that it was not even planned to be sent to the war due to the problems of transporting such a heavy tank and the unreliability of the tank. Why was the T-44 not used in the war? It was a new tank that had childhood illnesses that was produced in Kharkov which was only recently liberated and its factory was virtually destroyed. If the T-44 were produced in Chelyabinsk, for example, its reliability would most likely be better, but the rate of production of the T-34-85, which is needed for the front, would suffer. The reliability of the T-44 could be corrected, it did it, he served well in the army, the reliability of the Black Prince could be improved without a chance, this tank used an outdated suspension that was already extremely overtightened. And the most logical thing that you can do with him is to quit and focus on the promising Centurion.
19 Jul 2021, 16:39 PM
#98
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760



Have you read the article about the Black Prince? It clearly states that it was not even planned to be sent to the war due to the problems of transporting such a heavy tank and the unreliability of the tank. Why was the T-44 not used in the war? It was a new tank that had childhood illnesses that was produced in Kharkov which was only recently liberated and its factory was virtually destroyed. If the T-44 were produced in Chelyabinsk, for example, its reliability would most likely be better, but the rate of production of the T-34-85, which is needed for the front, would suffer. The reliability of the T-44 could be corrected, it did it, he served well in the army, the reliability of the Black Prince could be improved without a chance, this tank used an outdated suspension that was already extremely overtightened. And the most logical thing that you can do with him is to quit and focus on the promising Centurion.

I don’t care about the technical aspects of units, it still fits the time period so it doesn’t really matter to me, relic can add the panther 2 and is3 for all I care. You’re acting like t64s are being added to the game
Pip
19 Jul 2021, 16:41 PM
#99
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1545

v1s were not used in a tactical capacity, infrared assault rifles weren’t used, and don’t get me started on units like the strum tiger.


V1s were used to attack ground targets. They're missiles. The Germans used them to attack Antwerp directly in the later stages of the war. I'm not sure how you're defining "Tactical capacity" precisely, and why you think that's somehow the same as something not actually being used in /any/ capacity.

Yes, they did use Infrared sights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zielger%C3%A4t_1229

The Sturmtiger was indeed used in combat. Please, do "get started", because I'm not sure if you've actually got any real argument there.


You’re fighting a losing argument


Please stop projecting.


I don’t care about the technical aspects of units, it still fits the time period so it doesn’t really matter to me, relic can add the panther 2 and is3 for all I care. You’re acting like t64s are being added to the game


It wasn't used during the time period in question. Ergo: It does not fit the time period. Your "argument" would also allow for the addition of the Centurion, which is similarly not a period-appropriate vehicle.
19 Jul 2021, 16:42 PM
#100
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1910 | Subs: 2


I don’t care about the technical aspects of units, it still fits the time period so it doesn’t really matter to me, relic can add the panther 2 and is3 for all I care. You’re acting like t64s are being added to the game


in fact, the addition of the Black Prince is tantamount to the addition of the T-64. Because these are two tanks not participating in the Second World War. Once again, taking a certain time period, you take its limitations. There are no Black Princes in WWII, In Operation Unthinkable? Yes, he might be there.
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