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russian armor

Penal versatility

16 Jun 2021, 18:41 PM
#21
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 125

what would something to this tune feel like?

penals start with a mix of ppsh and SVts (make em cheaper if needed)
-this makes penals more aggressive, but also enables them to coexist better with cons instead of basically replacing them. it synergizes with the clown car and also gives soviet more brazen aggression which fits the units inspiration

allow them to upgrade to either upgrade and replace the PPSHs with more SVTs or PTRS.
this keeps their versatility and still allows soviet to have a "standard" fighting squad



as for the airdrop SVTs.... they shouldnt exist. cons were never meant to outfight the enemy, they are supposed to outlast them.

replace that with airdropped medical- something the soviet will certainly want, especially if it comes early. replace the airborne hut medical with a strafe or intel or something else.


I like the idea might be too much to implement though. most of us are pushing for the penal "upgrade" since we assume it would be easy to implement. I agree about SVT upgrade, it literally lets conscript do everything at a semi elite level with elite level durability.
16 Jun 2021, 20:04 PM
#22
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3125 | Subs: 1



I can't find the VET for penal hopefully you can help answer or point me where to look(What would be Penal squad specs with 4PPSH and vet). Wouldn't a penal in a clown car with vet 2 make a good chase unit. The VET would help its accuracy right? Also doesn't the VET 1 passive help?


https://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide
This veterancy guide is up to date *I believe*. The penal veterancy seems up to date anyway

Penals don't get an RA bonus until vet 3, except from to the last man. Cons get a bonus at vet 1 and another at vet 3, and they always have hoorah. Throw in the fact that they are cheaper in every way, and that just makes them better at CQC

I believe penals get 6 shock ppshs when they pick up the crate though. So their close range dps is higher than ppsh cons, I just think they have a harder time closing the distance
16 Jun 2021, 20:30 PM
#23
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 858 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2021, 02:47 AMClarity
I would almost say scrap the PTRS upgrade + AT Satchel completely and give Penals access to the AT grenade that Cons get.


Sure! And remove Pzshrek from PzGrenadier and give them Grenadier's PzFaust ?
16 Jun 2021, 20:47 PM
#24
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 125



https://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide
This veterancy guide is up to date *I believe*. The penal veterancy seems up to date anyway

Penals don't get an RA bonus until vet 3, except from to the last man. Cons get a bonus at vet 1 and another at vet 3, and they always have hoorah. Throw in the fact that they are cheaper in every way, and that just makes them better at CQC

I believe penals get 6 shock ppshs when they pick up the crate though. So their close range dps is higher than ppsh cons, I just think they have a harder time closing the distance


Thanks. To bad it doesn't give starting stats unless I did not see it.

It seems Penal would be better until Vet 3 due to their vet 1 ability and weapon cooldown at vet2. Not sure if accuracy would make help due to ROF. biggest issue would be bleed. Do people make the graphs on their own for DPS for cl/med/far. That would be cool to see how it would change.
16 Jun 2021, 21:05 PM
#25
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3125 | Subs: 1


Thanks. To bad it doesn't give starting stats unless I did not see it.

https://coh2.serealia.ca/
Relatively up to date if I'm not mistaken

I think hoorah really makes a big difference though. Really useful for getting behind an MG, closing on a long range squad, etc.

And in the end, just get shocks. They're just a better version of ppsh penals, whereas cons give more utility and a good discount compared to both
16 Jun 2021, 23:57 PM
#26
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 125


https://coh2.serealia.ca/
Relatively up to date if I'm not mistaken

I think hoorah really makes a big difference though. Really useful for getting behind an MG, closing on a long range squad, etc.

And in the end, just get shocks. They're just a better version of ppsh penals, whereas cons give more utility and a good discount compared to both


Thanks, I completely forgot about that website. Looking at the curves the Penals would hit harder early while the conscript would deal close enough while having better Vet3 durability. If I am reading the graphs correctly the PPSH upgrade is massive from short to mid range(16). My next question is if this is a single model DPS graph or for the whole squad? If it is single model, it would make sense to have at least one penal run around in a clown car as a chase unit.

On a different note why does OKW have better RA compared to Ost when they have larger squads? They always seem to float MP unless there are team wipes.
17 Jun 2021, 06:18 AM
#27
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 523



Sure! And remove Pzshrek from PzGrenadier and give them Grenadier's PzFaust ?


I would unironically be okay with that. 340Mp Elite unit is not a good AT carrier IMO.
17 Jun 2021, 08:08 AM
#28
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 858 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jun 2021, 06:18 AMJilet


I would unironically be okay with that. 340Mp Elite unit is not a good AT carrier IMO.


*Gasp*
... But then no other unit in Ostheer would carry the Pzshrek.
You know that, right?
17 Jun 2021, 08:27 AM
#29
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 523



*Gasp*
... But then no other unit in Ostheer would carry the Pzshrek.
You know that, right?


Again, wouldn't mind.
17 Jun 2021, 13:30 PM
#30
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 395

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jun 2021, 08:27 AMJilet


Again, wouldn't mind.


Agreed. Im not advocating that they remove it but Panzer Grenadiers are much better vs infantry and are needed more in that role than the AT Infantry role.

If they did lose Panzershreks they could pass it onto Storm Troopers and make them actually desirable instead of just a meme unit.
17 Jun 2021, 14:45 PM
#31
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5214

Take the shrek away from pgrens and making storms the only mobile AT is a good way to give ost the exact problem that AT penals was added to fix for soviet. Non doc Man AT (as in not at guns) has been determined to be a necessity for factions. Taking it away from pgrens solves no problems and instead creates some. There is no point whatsoever in such a change.
17 Jun 2021, 16:02 PM
#32
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1042


https://coh2.serealia.ca/
Relatively up to date if I'm not mistaken

I think hoorah really makes a big difference though. Really useful for getting behind an MG, closing on a long range squad, etc.

And in the end, just get shocks. They're just a better version of ppsh penals, whereas cons give more utility and a good discount compared to both



I was quite suprised when penals lost oorah at vet. Bringing at back woudnt hurt imo.
17 Jun 2021, 16:24 PM
#33
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 92

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jun 2021, 20:03 PMTodore
Its probably too late now for any suggestions because the patch is probably ready for release, but here's to future changes.
In the patch, both cons and penals will benefit from conscript repair package. This is a great change which adds versatility without making the ability too strong. It would be nice if conscript assault package got the same treatment where it would give access to ppsh for both cons and penals. Wehrmacht already has jaeger light infantry upgrade which affects grenadiers, panzergrenadiers and stormtroopers which is awesome and I don't see a reason why soviets shouldn't get the same privilege.


Penal Battalions benefitted from the airborne doctrine giving them six PPSH-41s at one command point. This was theoretically the earliest time you could get ppshs and it was pretty fun to do so.

wouldn't hurt to have a similar ability back at 1cp , since nobody used it before anyway
17 Jun 2021, 19:34 PM
#34
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3125 | Subs: 1


I was quite suprised when penals lost oorah at vet. Bringing at back woudnt hurt imo.

Ehh I think it would hurt. AT satchel becomes a lot easier to use if you add hoorah back to penals. That would be too strong imo
17 Jun 2021, 21:50 PM
#35
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 125


Ehh I think it would hurt. AT satchel becomes a lot easier to use if you add hoorah back to penals. That would be too strong imo


It could be balanced easily by making it part of the assault package which can lock out the AT upgrade. No yolo satchel.
18 Jun 2021, 12:44 PM
#36
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1042



It could be balanced easily by making it part of the assault package which can lock out the AT upgrade. No yolo satchel.


Yes thats the way to add it and fix it.
24 Jun 2021, 02:40 AM
#37
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 125

Not sure why, but I cant seem to get good results with PPSH Conscripts, I find it a lot easier to use the PPSH penals and can rack up kills with them to get to VET3. Conscripts seem way to squishy until VET3 and are pretty much outclassed by other short range squads. Seem to be fairly decent against gren or volks spammers but nothing else.
24 Jun 2021, 04:32 AM
#38
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 667

If anything Penals could have AVT-40 from assault package. It was pretty much was the modified SVT-40 (same in game model in other words) which was able to fire in full-auto mode.

In game vise it could fit a role of PGs StG or Rifles Bar, increasing mid range dps, lowering long range DPS and drastically increasing close range DPS.
24 Jun 2021, 04:36 AM
#39
avatar of Operator09

Posts: 14

fucking soviet all build PTRS. What a balance
24 Jun 2021, 07:32 AM
#40
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17522 | Subs: 8

fucking soviet all build PTRS. What a balance

"Opponent was finally given proper AT squad and they use it now, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
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