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I think now ptrs penals are a valid at squad

13 Jun 2021, 22:25 PM
#21
avatar of Clarity

Posts: 478

PTRS Penals are so terrible against upgraded infantry that's its balanced imo. If he spams PTRS to counter vehicles just run him over with infantry.
13 Jun 2021, 22:35 PM
#22
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13189 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 22:25 PMClarity
PTRS Penals are so terrible against upgraded infantry that's its balanced imo. If he spams PTRS to counter vehicles just run him over with infantry.

Many AT squad are terrible vs infatry, if they where not that would promote blooming.

Shreck VGs where not that great against "upgraded infantry" but the design was bad.
13 Jun 2021, 23:29 PM
#23
avatar of JPA32

Posts: 178

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 20:59 PMVipper
Many member of the community agree that Penal/T1 is badly designed so you might as well quite trying to present this if it was only my opinion.


Just here to say I think Penals are a perfect sidegrade to Cons right now.
13 Jun 2021, 23:40 PM
#24
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13189 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 23:29 PMJPA32


Just here to say I think Penals are a perfect sidegrade to Cons right now.

Then unfortunately I have to point out to you that conscripts and Penal are separate units and thus they can not be a sidegrade on of the other, but you are entitled to your opinion.
14 Jun 2021, 01:12 AM
#25
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

lool some people just want to defend themselves to the very end on here. if they wrong or not . i wish i knew the point.. could be boredem or just hate to see their opposing armys get buffs or their favorite armies get nerfs... lol in the end i dont care im going to adjust and own whoever anyways no matter how much my fav army gets nerfed at this point in coh2 who cares just keep it real man stop trolling and shit already
MMX
14 Jun 2021, 02:49 AM
#26
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

AT satchels are fine and kind of a necessity on the squad. Back when PTRS still had their horrendously long aim time you could easily push an AT Penal squad around with your LV and they wouldn't ever get a single shot off. The threat of a powerful snare prevents that from being abused and further keeps AT Penals somewhat relevant against later stage tanks. If the satchel was removed, you'd have to buff PTRS penals in some other meaningful way as both their AT (except vs LVs) and AI are nothing to write home about.
14 Jun 2021, 09:47 AM
#27
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 885

Just walk over them with a screening infantry squad. 3 PTRS make them fairly weak vs Axis mainlines. A good player shouldn't be surprised by them barring some fantastic deception plays and they become a xpfarmliability vs pzgrens/Obers. Auf J will still (rightfully) roll you 95%+ of the time in a shootout. Stock pz iv still wins usually from old patch testing too iirc.

tl;dr They're fine imho.
14 Jun 2021, 09:55 AM
#28
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2844 | Subs: 2

Satchel needs to stay, both for long term scaling as well as Soviet T1 builds having a viable snare. You cannot expect a Penal build to push out Penals while still buying Conscripts and the grenade package AND staying competitive.
14 Jun 2021, 10:01 AM
#29
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

I learnt how to deal with Penals knowing that they have an AT satchel ages ago, people need to go on with the times.
14 Jun 2021, 20:17 PM
#30
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

The only issue I have with PTRS penals is how effectively they can shut down light vehicle play due to their range and dps compared to other AT infantry. In general, you are better off not ever going for light vehicles because of either penals or guards ptrs
14 Jun 2021, 21:54 PM
#31
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1460

The only issue I have with PTRS penals is how effectively they can shut down light vehicle play due to their range and dps compared to other AT infantry. In general, you are better off not ever going for light vehicles because of either penals or guards ptrs


There is a whole map for the LV to roam. Issues arise when one forces the LV into one particular lane where the penals are. Guards are not that scary vs LVs, except maybe vs 222 and the likes. Flak and luchs can easily bleed the guards and force them to retreat, while you only need repairs. Flame HT is also good vs Guards.
Penals are a bit scarier vs LVs because now they have 3 PTSRs. If you see that, then you just don't go for LVs. Easy as that. Same as how you won't go for a king tiger if you see 3 SU85s...
14 Jun 2021, 23:56 PM
#32
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 306

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 23:29 PMJPA32


Just here to say I think Penals are a perfect sidegrade to Cons right now.


Yeah seems like a playstyle preference for sure so you have more variety in choice of mainlines as Soviet
15 Jun 2021, 04:18 AM
#33
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3381 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jun 2021, 20:06 PMVipper

T1/Penal simply need a redesign.

What is simple about redesigning a unit that is available for most of the match?

Right now they are well balanced in the beginning as an anti-light. They trade off infantry damage for that. Late game they have the satchel to keep them useful against tanks

How many people have to say the unit is fine before you admit that MAYBE a full redesign isn't a good idea? At least get smaller and more concise with your suggestion, whatever it is
15 Jun 2021, 08:44 AM
#34
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13189 | Subs: 1


What is simple about redesigning a unit that is available for most of the match?

Right now they are well balanced in the beginning as an anti-light. They trade off infantry damage for that. Late game they have the satchel to keep them useful against tanks

How many people have to say the unit is fine before you admit that MAYBE a full redesign isn't a good idea? At least get smaller and more concise with your suggestion, whatever it is

How many people have to say that t1/Penal are NOT ok before redesign?
15 Jun 2021, 08:49 AM
#35
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jun 2021, 08:44 AMVipper

How many people have to say that t1/Penal are NOT ok before redesign?


The unit is fine and does not need a redesign. Also, the mod team has told you many times that saying the word "re-design" over and over again won't help them to make the unit better.
15 Jun 2021, 10:49 AM
#37
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 642



The unit is fine and does not need a redesign. Also, the mod team has told you many times that saying the word "re-design" over and over again won't help them to make the unit better.



Agreed that the Penals are fine however considering that Vipper is usually biased and is basically trolling at this point with how he wants to nerf every single allied unit, I think his take on the argument is flawed but he would have some merit to his argument if he were to reframe the argument.

Vipper is obviously biased towards OKW which lack a decent non doctrinal AT Squad. If he were to make that case instead of spewing Nerf all the allied things then he would have a valid argument to make.

Whermacht have Panzer Grenadiers, Soviet have Penals, USF have Bazookas and UKF have Piats while OKW only have Sturmpioneers which if compared to Penals (or any other faction) are quite garbage. I wouldn't mind seeing PZB 39's on Volksgrenadiers as a Penal PTRS alternative or an additional Panzershrek upgrade on Sturmpioneers.

15 Jun 2021, 11:00 AM
#38
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1460




Agreed that the Penals are fine however considering that Vipper is usually biased and is basically trolling at this point with how he wants to nerf every single allied unit, I think his take on the argument is flawed but he would have some merit to his argument if he were to reframe the argument.

Vipper is obviously biased towards OKW which lack a decent non doctrinal AT Squad. If he were to make that case instead of spewing Nerf all the allied things then he would have a valid argument to make.

Whermacht have Panzer Grenadiers, Soviet have Penals, USF have Bazookas and UKF have Piats while OKW only have Sturmpioneers which if compared to Penals (or any other faction) are quite garbage. I wouldn't mind seeing PZB 39's on Volksgrenadiers as a Penal PTRS alternative or an additional Panzershrek upgrade on Sturmpioneers.



Additional shreck on sturms would not be bad, but then the weapon swaps would need taking look at. With the close range DPS they have and survivability, swapping 2xshrecks and sweepers could be problematic, especially in larger modes where there are usually 2x sturmpio openings
15 Jun 2021, 12:55 PM
#39
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3381 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jun 2021, 08:44 AMVipper

How many people have to say that t1/Penal are NOT ok before redesign?

You didn't answer my first question and you're deflecting from the 2nd one. Are you really incapable of understanding how a full redesign is less "simple" then just keeping them as is?

You are literally one of the only people advocating for a full redesign. And you have no good argument as to why, literally none at all. You just keep repeating "simply need redesign"
15 Jun 2021, 13:14 PM
#40
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13189 | Subs: 1


You didn't answer my first question and you're deflecting from the 2nd one. Are you really incapable of understanding how a full redesign is less "simple" then just keeping them as is?

You are literally one of the only people advocating for a full redesign. And you have no good argument as to why, literally none at all. You just keep repeating "simply need redesign"

There are many player even top player that do not agree with current Penal/T1 design.

Here is GiaA



here is elchino7



now pls stop pretending as if I am the only one that says Penal/t1 is badly designed.
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