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The game slowly moves away from an historical WW2 game

17 Apr 2021, 15:39 PM
#81
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 965

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2021, 08:29 AMKatitof
Yeah, germany still lost the war historically.
Germany lost the war so they can't win local engagements on a company level that this game represents. 200 IQ Katitof comment there.
17 Apr 2021, 16:44 PM
#82
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 12:07 PMPip
It's a scoped rifle, and it has several /wildly/ different dps profiles depending on the squad using it. The STG should be the weapon to act as you describe, the G43 really should be a mid/long range focused weapon, not a "close range/On the move" armament.


Well the Semi-Automatic Rifle profile came first, with the Jaeger Light Infantry Upgrade for Grenadiers and Panzergrenadiers, the G43 upgrade for Panzerfusuliers, and the Jaeger Light Infantry Recon squad which was equipped entirely with G43's. The G43 DMR was created as part of a Jaeger Light Infantry Recon rework since the original unit was kind of a meme squad.

If you want to really get into arguing, the scope they use is only a ZF-4, a 4x scope originally designed for Infantry, not Snipers. It was only issued to Snipers because the Soviet sniper program encouraged the Wehrmacht to step up their own sniper program and the ZF-4 was already available in considerable numbers.

The G43 was and still is a semi-automatic rifle, a puny 4x scope doesn't change that.
Pip
17 Apr 2021, 16:56 PM
#83
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580



Well the Semi-Automatic Rifle profile came first.


I'd have thought that the OST sniper G43 came first.

Though honestly it's immaterial, Even "only" a four times scope is not a logical choice for a CQB weapon, and given that it is a scoped rifle, it really makes more sense for them to be long-ranged weapons.

STGs exist to be the "cqb" option for Axis squads, if that's something people want.
17 Apr 2021, 17:06 PM
#84
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

Germany lost the war so they can't win local engagements on a company level that this game represents. 200 IQ Katitof comment there.

That is exclusively commander issue.

And I'm not talking about doctrines here.
17 Apr 2021, 23:08 PM
#85
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 16:56 PMPip
I'd have thought that the OST sniper G43 came first.

Snipers are a distinct unit type and what they use is irrelevant to how they behave. Nobody is confused about the role of the Mosin-Nagant or the Boys Anti-Tank Rifle because they are both used by Infantry and Snipers.


jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 16:56 PMPip
Though honestly it's immaterial, Even "only" a four times scope is not a logical choice for a CQB weapon, and given that it is a scoped rifle, it really makes more sense for them to be long-ranged weapons.

It is a Semi-Automatic Rifle, it's good at close range and mid range because it can pew pew faster than a Bolt-Action Rifle. It being the same or worse than a bolt-action up close makes no sense.


jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2021, 16:56 PMPip
STGs exist to be the "cqb" option for Axis squads, if that's something people want.

Assault Rifles are also good at close and mid range because they can pew pew better than Bolt-Action rifles. They can also pew pew better than Semi-Automatic Rifles, but the reason the G43 is competitive with them is because the G43 is a doctrinal upgrade unlike an SVT or M1 Garand.
26 Apr 2021, 17:51 PM
#86
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 867 | Subs: 5



What core game mechanics were there when the game was released? Our perception of what the game was back then is different, because when the game was released it was, and other people will agree, a total f-up up mess of a game in every possible way.


Penals with flamethrowers.
double soviet snipers in M3 scout cars.
sniper had sprint
3 men MG42, Mortar, Pak40/75 AT guns
Maxim Spam
Soviet Mortars had precise shot
120mm Sov mortar had precise shot
T34/76 Ram could insta-devastate German armor from the front. Guaranteed

Demo charge mine-invisible
Soviet T35 mines could wipe squads
Panthers had 800 health (killed in 5 hits from SU85)
SU85 had faster rate of fire.

Zis-3/76 barrage was free
SU/76 barrage was free

Hey, I'm just getting started
Is this the genuine WW2 he is referring to?

Also Soviet "For the motherlands" giving sprint to Shock troops, etc
(Also still worked while in battle, or under fire)

27 Apr 2021, 00:18 AM
#87
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1905

And slowly becomes just a "flavoured" WW2 RTS game.

....
I wonder if the magnificent balance team members have any clue or idea of the history of WW2 and the actual weapons, artilery and warfare being used.


It is interesting that people get so selective in what they want to be historically accurate. Here is a portion of what I've been thinking about putting in a rant on arty:

AoE Damage
Crewed Base Damage Range Rng(IRL) Shell Wgt ROF (IRL) Near Mid Far
ML-20 152mm Howitzer 200 250 17230 51.5 3 200 30 10
B-4 203mm Howitzer 640 250 25400 110 yes 640 96 32
leFH 18 Field Howi (Ost 160 250 10675 14.8 6 160 56 8
leFH 18 Field Howi(OKW) 160 250 10675 14.8 6 160 56 8
M7B1 Priest 200 180 11270 14.8? 6? 200 56 10
Sexton Self-Propelled 160 135 12253 11.5 6 160 80 32

The Sexton and Priest should barely outrange the LEFH. Instead, the LEFH greatly outranges them. The ML20 should do massively more damage than the LEFH. Instead, the LEFH does more than the ML20. The B4 does do more damage than the LEFH, but nothing on the order of what it should.

Disclaimers: COH2 numbers taken from Stein's sheet, I have not verified that they are correct. Ranges for the Priest and Sexton taken from the towed version of the gun, I could not find if the self-propelled version had a shorter barrel which would have decreased the range.
27 Apr 2021, 00:34 AM
#88
avatar of Applejack

Posts: 353



Penals with flamethrowers.
double soviet snipers in M3 scout cars.
sniper had sprint
3 men MG42, Mortar, Pak40/75 AT guns
Maxim Spam
Soviet Mortars had precise shot
120mm Sov mortar had precise shot
T34/76 Ram could insta-devastate German armor from the front. Guaranteed

Demo charge mine-invisible
Soviet T35 mines could wipe squads
Panthers had 800 health (killed in 5 hits from SU85)
SU85 had faster rate of fire.

Zis-3/76 barrage was free
SU/76 barrage was free

Hey, I'm just getting started
Is this the genuine WW2 he is referring to?

Also Soviet "For the motherlands" giving sprint to Shock troops, etc
(Also still worked while in battle, or under fire)



Once WFA was released OKW had a tactical nuke which was both awesome and frustrating to play against.
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