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Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback

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25 Apr 2021, 07:44 AM
#501
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2021, 07:14 AMVipper

Why do you think that the commander need a buff?
It already provides:
superior support weapon
elite infatry
premium medium
good off map



The idea is not to create the best commander possible but to close the gaps between commanders creating more meta commanders.

How will that make it the best Commander possible. AVD is just stupid and unthematic. And a simple nade volley won't make the commander super OP. It will fit the theme of anti infantry doc compared to Guard motor anti tank/vehicle focus.


25 Apr 2021, 07:50 AM
#502
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


How will that make it the best Commander possible. AVD is just stupid and unthematic. And a simple nade volley won't make the commander super OP. It will fit the theme of anti infantry doc compared to Guard motor anti tank/vehicle focus.



Command has 4 good abilities the 5 is weaker and that makes sense, it simply does not need a stronger 5 ability.
25 Apr 2021, 08:07 AM
#503
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

Tell me what ability in GMCT is exactly weak????
25 Apr 2021, 09:42 AM
#504
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21



5men PPsH partisans not enuff? D:

25 Apr 2021, 10:18 AM
#505
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

So I did 16 runs (8 runs against front armor and 8 against rear armor, please don't ask me why 8, not 10:) ) with IL-2 Rocket Run and JU-87 AT Strafe against panthers.

So in average JU-87 performed 7% better against rear armor and 18% better against front armor comparatively to IL-2 rocket run. I have no idea on exact delay between the abilities, but IL-2 seem to appear 1 second sooner, while plane's speeds are the same. Prices are 125 munies (IL-2) vs 110 munies (JU-87).

Screenshot of results in total damage dealt vs stationary target aimed at the center of a panther and were performed with communitytest version of the game:

25 Apr 2021, 10:22 AM
#506
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

So I did 16 runs (8 runs against front armor and 8 against rear armor, please don't ask me why 8, not 10:) ) with IL-2 Rocket Run and JU-87 AT Strafe against panthers.

So in average JU-87 performed 7% better against rear armor and 18% better against front armor comparatively to IL-2 rocket run. I have no idea on exact delay between the abilities, but IL-2 seem to appear 1 second sooner, while plane's speeds are the same. Prices are 125 munies (IL-2) vs 110 munies (JU-87).

Screenshot of results in total damage dealt vs stationary target aimed at the center of a panther and were performed with communitytest version of the game:


What. Why is JU87d doing more damage from the front???
25 Apr 2021, 11:08 AM
#507
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772


What. Why is JU87d doing more damage from the front???

I suppose JU has more then 260 pen and the difference is pure RNG
25 Apr 2021, 16:12 PM
#508
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

So I did 16 runs (8 runs against front armor and 8 against rear armor, please don't ask me why 8, not 10:) ) with IL-2 Rocket Run and JU-87 AT Strafe against panthers.

So in average JU-87 performed 7% better against rear armor and 18% better against front armor comparatively to IL-2 rocket run. I have no idea on exact delay between the abilities, but IL-2 seem to appear 1 second sooner, while plane's speeds are the same. Prices are 125 munies (IL-2) vs 110 munies (JU-87).

Screenshot of results in total damage dealt vs stationary target aimed at the center of a panther and were performed with communitytest version of the game:


nice test well done
25 Apr 2021, 16:51 PM
#509
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2021, 16:12 PMVipper

nice test well done

Nuh, should've retested the outliers, but the tendency is still there.

I kind of understand the IL-2 pen nerf, since rockets come from an angle and can hit both rear armor and front. But the ability may be slightly expensive for what it does imo. Still would have picked it over JU-87, just because of it snappiness and versatility of the doctrine it is in.

Both abilities are, in my opinion, example of what call-ins should look like, just because they require more input and thought into using them then loiters.
25 Apr 2021, 17:03 PM
#510
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1295

It's not overlapping, it's the literal point of a Shock Army. Shock Armies were characterized by mass deployment of Submachine Guns and Artillery. It's about losing the theme of the Commander.


^^ He's right you know.
25 Apr 2021, 17:15 PM
#511
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486


What. Why is JU87d doing more damage from the front???


High pen and better profile. The Panther and Elephant are basically wedges. From the upward approach angle, the front has the largest profile while the rear less. So less area = less hits.
25 Apr 2021, 19:42 PM
#512
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

I'm not convinced the IL-2 Rocket Strafe is an effective ability at this time. During a game last night I've seen it used against a Panzer IV and a StuG III, dealing about 25% and 33% damage respectively. It's not useful against heavy tanks that sit still, it's not useful against medium tanks that move away, and it's not even useful against medium tanks that sit still.
26 Apr 2021, 14:52 PM
#513
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

If you haven't seen it being used effectively, that does not mean it is not effective. It is quite good in live patch.
26 Apr 2021, 17:26 PM
#514
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

I have an Idea for Soviet shock army.
Replace armor vehicle detection with off map smoke barrage.
26 Apr 2021, 22:18 PM
#515
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

Airborne Guards with PPSH need Hold Fire and moving camouflage. Stormtroopers, Commandos, Partisans all have hold fire and moving camouflage and Airborne Guards look like they are trying to be similar.

Fire Superiority makes more sense on LMG instead of PPSH Airborne Guards and has an AOE but is single target.
26 Apr 2021, 23:09 PM
#516
avatar of Chukiki

Posts: 112

guards button ability needs BUFF.
Bring it to the way it was.
its way too difficult to take out panthers. And COnscirpt AT grenade is way better than button.
27 Apr 2021, 01:20 AM
#517
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658

What about turning B4 into a pak43 clone, with a vet 1 ability to do artillery strike. the regular shot does 320 damage and the indirect strike does 640.



I agree with this. British have the 17 Pounder Emplacement. Both German Factions have the Pak 43, I would like to see the B4 turn into the soviet version of these with the Vet 1 ability to do a Precision Strike that costs lots of ammo (and less damage than 640 with long cooldown)
27 Apr 2021, 02:19 AM
#518
avatar of FunPolice

Posts: 133

I have an Idea for Soviet shock army.
Replace armor vehicle detection with off map smoke barrage.

Does Shock Army really need more strong abilties? I thought the rework has already made this like a top pick for certain modes. It's a premium medium + shocks + off map which is just an amazing set of abilities. Imo the commander is fine post rework.
27 Apr 2021, 04:09 AM
#519
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

B4 needs attention. I did several tests with shelling enemy base, after 3 squads with full health retreated to base from opposite directions. B4 was placed near my base at Crossroads. Shelling was done with recon overflight

Here is a screenshot of the aftermath from 1 volley.

Even this is an outlier, the results are consistently deadly. Sometimes B4 even managed to knock out a full health med bunker, or wipe full health squad. This is way too effective.
27 Apr 2021, 07:03 AM
#520
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563


Does Shock Army really need more strong abilties? I thought the rework has already made this like a top pick for certain modes. It's a premium medium + shocks + off map which is just an amazing set of abilities. Imo the commander is fine post rework.

But Armor vehicle detection really doesn't fit the theme or assist in what it trying to do. I mean every ability in Guard Motor is strong or useful(T34/85 strong, guards strong, mortar useful, mark vehicle strong, self repair strong).
I don't see a problem if shock army had all good abelites.
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