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UKF Commander Revamp 2021

25 Mar 2021, 00:52 AM
#81
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2021, 09:58 AMVipper
Lend Lease Assault Regiment

CP 0 M1 81mm Mortar Team


CP 0 Assault Infantry Sections


CP 0 M10 Achilles Tank Destroyer


CP 3 M5 Half-track


CP 6 Vehicle Crew Repairs


General:
An interesting commander with a few issues that offer an alternative play style to the faction. What is obvious for the commander is the off maps which are usually come with in UKF commanders. Imo this is less of an issue since contrary to other commander this one has an aggressive start.

Suggestions:

CP 0 Assault Infantry Sections

Main problem come from this infatry that start with unit that start with a received accuracy of 1 and reinforces with 28 and end up causing to much bleed. In addition the fresh units can not be build it late.

Imo one could try the following (which apply to some other SMG troops also):
Reinforcement cost to 26.
Now comes with timed ability that reduce target size for 30 secs ()
WP grenade replaced with the commando smoke grenade that does provides defensive bonus. WP grenade could replace the light gammon bomb of commandos
Can now fire bren on the move after hammer/anvil unlocks
Veterancy bonus includes lower reinforcement cost

Vet bonus and DPS might need some adjustments.


CP 0 M10 Achilles Tank Destroyer


Since this is a flanking vehicle maybe unit that design for it flanking should have lower threshold for engine damage (so that 1 snare is not enough for engine damage)

In addition one could add extra critical damage for rear shots.

Possibly remove AP round but increase duration for flanking speed that now also provides faster turret rotation.

CP 3 M5 Half-track

Only a visual change, change crew from tank crew to infatry ( engineers or support weapons, same goes for sexton and priest)


CP 6 Vehicle Crew Repairs

The ability is good but one might consider to replace it with an medium power off map. Possible candidates:
Smoke raid operation
Mortar cover
or
A light howitzer barrage similar to "concentration barrage" but with CP 6-8 and cost around 120.

IMO assault sections are fine. They're pretty strong especially for 0 CP CQC infantry and they scale very well with vet and WP nade spam. Making them cheaper would make them too OP
25 Mar 2021, 01:45 AM
#82
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

Special weapons
Hold the line is super gimmicky
Replace hold the line with land mattress
Also, very thematic as land mattress is a special weapon

Mobile assault
Add a munitions sink
Replace Cover bonus with Strafing support

Tactical support
Artillery observation post is terrible
Maybe Replace with Priest
25 Mar 2021, 07:18 AM
#83
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


IMO assault sections are fine. They're pretty strong especially for 0 CP CQC infantry and they scale very well with vet and WP nade spam. Making them cheaper would make them too OP

The main problem with them is scaling. The become great (maybe even too good) at vet 2 but one can not replace them later in game because they are too weak at vet 0.

Generally speaking CQB they are rather hard to balance since they tend to other dominate fight or be cut to piece during approach. For that reason I have suggest that instead of relying on pure stat for fight they should have a timed ability that help so that their power is timed limited and player should use it wisely.
25 Mar 2021, 12:49 PM
#84
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2


My 2 cent about Tactical Support:

This commander needs some changes.
  • After the recent tech changes "Field Recovery Operation" is even weaker than before because you can simply build engis in the hq. Replace this ability with the flamethrower upgrade.
  • Forward Observation Post is just bad because you need a building to use the quiet powerful abilities. I would suggest to remove this ability and to replace it with either the strafe or the artillery that the FOP provides. Getting a potent off map would make this commander so much better.
25 Mar 2021, 12:58 PM
#85
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2021, 12:49 PMSmartie
  • Forward Observation Post is just bad because you need a building to use the quiet powerful abilities. I would suggest to remove this ability and to replace it with either the strafe or the artillery that the FOP provides. Getting a potent off map would make this commander so much better.


You can also upgrade a Forward Assembly to an FOP, so you can get it everywhere. Recovery RE are on the radar to get a bit of a rework because of the recent changes to regular RE.
25 Mar 2021, 13:05 PM
#86
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2021, 12:49 PMSmartie

My 2 cent about Tactical Support:

This commander needs some changes.
  • After the recent tech changes "Field Recovery Operation" is even weaker than before because you can simply build engis in the hq. Replace this ability with the flamethrower upgrade.

The unit is actually quite good.

It has "scavenger" ability
Smoke grenades
improved repair speed

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2021, 12:49 PMSmartie

  • Forward Observation Post is just bad because you need a building to use the quiet powerful abilities. I would suggest to remove this ability and to replace it with either the strafe or the artillery that the FOP provides. Getting a potent off map would make this commander so much better.

Problem is that comes way too late for no good reason.
25 Mar 2021, 13:05 PM
#87
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2



You can also upgrade a Forward Assembly to an FOP, so you can build it everywhere. Recovery RE are on the radar to get a bit of a rework because of the recent changes to regular RE.


Thx for your post. I did not know that I can upgrade the FA to MOP. This makes a big difference!
That being said the FOP offers
  • STrafing Run
  • Recon Run
  • Smoke Artillery
  • Artillery Support
  • Artillery Cover

    I think you could use some of the above abilities for other commanders like Lend Lease Assault that lack good off maps.
25 Mar 2021, 13:08 PM
#88
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2021, 13:05 PMSmartie


Thx for your post. I did not know that I can upgrade the FA to MOP. This makes a big difference!
That being said the FOP offers
  • STrafing Run
  • Recon Run
  • Smoke Artillery
  • Artillery Support
  • Artillery Cover

    I think you could use some of the above abilities for other commanders like Lend Lease Assault that lack good off maps.

One should removed most of the off map from the building so it becomes available earlier or lock the off map in CP/upgrade.
25 Mar 2021, 17:27 PM
#89
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

I had experimental modding on FOP with just the recon run and mg straff. The straff is locked behind company cp so that the fop upgrade can be available at 2cp. The two ability keept are both air support since this Commander is a guy from Raf.

I dont know what can be done about recovery sapper but demolition sapper in royal engineer to replace the lackluster flamer upgrade will be very nice. Technically they are pre exist unit so it wont violate the rule.
27 Mar 2021, 20:50 PM
#90
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Special Weapons Regiment

General:
One of my favorite UKF commander but one that can use changes.


Suggestions:

Tank Hunter Infantry Section
The main reason I like this commander. The unit combines decent AI snares AT capabilities and grenades while being affordable. The changes in aim time have increased the AI of boys and the sight range at vet one allows first beyond enemy range.

I personally find the Piat upgrade not worth it since boy are decent AT but also AI.

Heavy gammon bomb is an overkill and should probably not be available to the unit while the vet bonuses should be different than vanilla IS and more AT oriented.

Having said all that imo they should be removed from the commander for the reason I will explain in the next point

Valentine as normal tank would fit this commander's theme since it would a "special weapon" or maybe a greyhound a Sherman or Dozer Sherman or maybe flamer IS already in game (adjusted)

Resupply Half-track

Now this thing has been nerfed to oblivion and for good reason, not only it arrive too late but it also requires to unlock weapon to gain access. Imo it should have been removed but if one is adamant to fix there might be away.

The idea is to replace the tone down the weapons it offers in order to become less easy to exploit it while making making its access easier.

One could replace the Piat drop which is a strong AT weapon with Boys AT rifle (that explains why one should remove Tank hunters) being balance as Penal's PTRS and using the PTRS model/Panzerbüchse when on the ground if a boys model is not available. This change will solve one part of the problem.

The other problem the lmg can be solved by making the weapon occupy 2 slots (is there is a need for it one could increase the DPS a bit). That would prevent the problem of cheap infatry carrying duel powerful LMG

With these change one can lower CP to 3(or 2) and allow Boys to come for free and probably lock LMG behind T3.

Hold The Line!
The ability is the most expensive CP 8 ability and can be extremely powerful. Lower cost 60-70 CP to 6-7 and simply lose the the individual typhoons.

Alternatively lower price to 120 and replace the individual typhoons with a single loiter plane over a the front line sector of player selection.

Defensive bonuses can be extended to all friendly sectors.

Concentrated Fire Operation

A powerful ability that imo should not be available with heavy call-in like Croc. Can be replace by a weaker off map ability

Vanguard Operation Crocodile

A call-in tanks available to 33% of UKF commanders and should probably be removed from one of them but seem to fit this commander fine.

First of all one should removed the flare from the ability. Call in a heavy tank is enough and being able to call reveal the map of off strike makes little sense.

Churchill have abnormal acceleration and rotation for heavy tanks and the value should be reduced.

In addition one should improve vet bonuses and make them more suitable for heavy armor or HP could be included. (one could increase HP to 1200 but lower base armor and add armor as vet bonus)

One should probably remove the Emergency War Speed from this vehicle and add the commander is possible instead and or some aura for supporting infatry or some aura that terrifies enemy infatry.

As for the flamer imo the DOT should become available only as a timed ability and not always on allowing for better balancing of the damage output of vehicle. It could also receive a lower fuel cost or become available without hammer/anvil.
28 Mar 2021, 10:01 AM
#91
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

Tactical support regiments engineers could be turned into a dedicated anti garrison unit. Heavy gammon and democharges could be potential choices for them and they would add additional choice of early game potential in urban maps.
28 Mar 2021, 11:49 AM
#92
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

Tactical support regiments engineers could be turned into a dedicated anti garrison unit. Heavy gammon and democharges could be potential choices for them and they would add additional choice of early game potential in urban maps.


demolition sapper already exist and is designed for that task.
28 Mar 2021, 14:09 PM
#93
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2021, 09:58 AMVipper
Lend Lease Assault Regiment

CP 0 M10 Achilles Tank Destroyer


CP 0 M10 Achilles Tank Destroyer

Since this is a flanking vehicle maybe unit that design for it flanking should have lower threshold for engine damage (so that 1 snare is not enough for engine damage)

In addition one could add extra critical damage for rear shots.

Possibly remove AP round but increase duration for flanking speed that now also provides faster turret rotation.


I always thought USF M10 /UKF Achilles has a weird design. On one side Flanking Speed at Vet0 tries to tell you to use the tank as a fast flanking tank. On the other side there are only 540 HP, a low turret rotation, a range of 50, paper armor, a decent penetration that can take most tanks frontally and HVAP at Vet1. The later tells you to use the tank as a weaker but cheaper replacement to M36/Firefly in pretty much the same combat role.

Usually this tank is pretty much dead if it runs into infantry since it has no smoke or AI capabilities. Every time I played it and tried to use it as a flanking tank it usually does some decent damage to armor only to get destroyed by a Shrek mob just coming around the corner which penetrates M10/Achilles at any range. So you are better of to use it as part of your frontline while using Flank speed for quick relocation and better received accuracy.

If this should be a flanking tank with such low hp and paper armor there have to be some changes. Your changes are definitely interesting, i agree about most of them. A flanking tank doesn't need HVAP for sure, Imo 50 range are not needed either. Instead it needs turret rotation as you said and some more survivability, especially versus handheld AT and snares. PAKs are less of a problem since they can be circled.
Something like a temporary immunity to engine damage while Flanking Speed is active for example. More received Acc and/or longer duration of Flanking Speed could be options too. Smoke shot/smoke pots/smoke launcher at Vet1 (instead of HVAP) is one more option that comes to my mind.

I would like to see a shift to the role of flanking tank, because it would add more versatility to the doctrinal tank roster of USF/UKF.


28 Mar 2021, 14:55 PM
#94
28 Mar 2021, 16:10 PM
#95
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919



sander pls :foreveralone:


Giving an onmap howitzer to UKF would be a nice addition. But you shouldn't put it in one commander with Precison Barrage that kills howitzers of opponent 100% for sure (+nondoc recon plane). I would suggest to swap the ability with Royal Engineer Regiment.

- Flame Mortar for Advanced Emplacement Regiment
- Precision Barrage for Royal Engineer Regiment
29 Mar 2021, 00:50 AM
#96
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

Royal Engineer Regiment

[0CP] M2 Flamethrower for REs
[2CP] Designate Command Vehicle
[6CP] Vehicle Crew Repairs
[8CP] Flame Mortar Support
[9CP] Specialist Avre

I would like a few changes to strengthen the theme and make the Regiment a little bit more appealing for team games. I don't think it can be changed in a way that i will be a common pick at 1vs1 without turnig it upside down. So I won't even try.

[0CP] M2 Flamethrower: Bundle with construction of tank traps and sandbags for REs
[6CP] Vehicle Crew Repairs: remove and add [3CP] Advanced Assembly instead
[8CP] Flame Mortar Support: Swap with [10CP] Precision strike of Advanced Emplacement Regiment (which gets Flame Mortar Support in exchange)

Tank traps and sandbags would fit this commander very well. Advanced Assembly is weaker on first glance (I really like Vehicle Crew Repairs bringing your vehicle back to combat in no time) but it adds just more team game spirit, since you can repair the vehicles of your mates with your Forward Assembly.
Precison Strike gives the ability to delete howitzers and should be a further reason for a pick in team games.

Btw. Advanced Assembly upgrade should cost about 75 MU instead of 200 MP. But that is just a personal opinion.
30 Mar 2021, 08:55 AM
#97
avatar of Applejack

Posts: 359

My goal for this suggested change is to make this commander more fun to play without ruining the balance of the game.

Vanguard Operations Regiment

I'm not a fan of the 3CP Forward Logistics Glider ability. Its too big on the map and blocks sight very easily. The unique way that it comes (drops) in makes it feel weird to use and is sometimes limited as there are space requirements and map limiting positions on where the glider can be placed.

I think these requirements make the ability bad to use and not fun. Clunky. As a change, I suggest that this ability be replaced with a special structure (Forward Operations HQ) that can be built by Royal Engineers that acts the same way as the glider. Allowing training of team weapons, medics and acting as a retreat point. Similar to the ones that can be built by the Soviet Urban Defence Commander. The new building can even be a bunker because that is what you would expect at the front.
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