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It's time for Main Gun Crits to go

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12 Dec 2020, 19:02 PM
#41
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



You dont get my point concerning the cover system i made. The point is where will it end? It will end at a stale streamlined aka boring rts where everything is a certanty.

You think people will stop after removing main gun crits? Did they stop after cold weather removal or heavy engine critical or track destroyed? No they didnt, this very thread proves it.

And a good direction for the game is very subjective. I do agree it far better then years back. But the critical like main gun imo need to stay.

And still if a exeedingly rare crit causes so much frustration esp when it can also happen to your opponent why play this game? If you dont want those crits play dow 2 or 3, or c&c or star craft. They don have those feutures. It would save precious man hours not changing a great game into something its not designed or meant to be.

lots of people, myself included are already annoyed with the watering down of game features. cold tech needed a rework, not a removal and weapon crits are the same.
12 Dec 2020, 19:08 PM
#42
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2020, 16:24 PMPip


If you're adamant on these RNG crits still being in the game, why do they need to be as impactful as Main Gun Crits? Crew Shocked and similar, temporary, or otherwise less impactful crits would be preferable to your main cannon being unusable.

Though i'd still prefer they be gone entirely.


I have already said why and provided an alternative solution to plainly removing. I think the 20% is perfect cause then it gives further differentiation between sub HP tiers and you can work around the critical by knowing how much dmg from different sources you took.

I've also said that other type of criticals would be much better as a stopgap before this heavy ones can occur. Engine dmg/main gun destroy should only occur at say 5/10% HP while all other types of crits which are underused in the game should be the ones occurring at 25% HP.
12 Dec 2020, 19:09 PM
#43
avatar of strafniki

Posts: 558 | Subs: 1

I will add a few cents: of course it is annoying if a main gun crit is happening against your favor, but this keeps COH interesting and kinda unpredictible.. as someone mentioned before: without all the mechanics it would be just a raw starcraft. not that enjoyable if you are playing the games for fun.. because if every engagement would become predictible.. would it be still fun? i highly doubt it
maybe a solid rework could fix very annoying issues tho
12 Dec 2020, 19:12 PM
#44
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


lots of people, myself included are already annoyed with the watering down of game features. cold tech needed a rework, not a removal and weapon crits are the same.


Cold tech was a performance, design and balance problem. Many things which couldn't be touched due to limited power of mod tools.

Crits is mainly a balance problem with a slight touch of design issues. And it's not something hard to improve cause everything is already there.
Pip
12 Dec 2020, 19:19 PM
#45
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

I will add a few cents: of course it is annoying if a main gun crit is happening against your favor, but this keeps COH interesting and kinda unpredictible.. as someone mentioned before: without all the mechanics it would be just a raw starcraft. not that enjoyable if you are playing the games for fun.. because if every engagement would become predictible.. would it be still fun? i highly doubt it
maybe a solid rework could fix very annoying issues tho


There's literally nothing wrong with engagements becoming predictable. Being able to predict the outcome of an action allows you to rely more on your own skill, rather than hoping a dice roll is in your favour.

There is no reason that a game with less RNG would be less fun than one with absurd levels of RNG.

I really don't see the removal of these things as "Watering down game features". They are not good features to begin with.
12 Dec 2020, 21:18 PM
#46
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I will add a few cents: of course it is annoying if a main gun crit is happening against your favor, but this keeps COH interesting and kinda unpredictible.. as someone mentioned before: without all the mechanics it would be just a raw starcraft. not that enjoyable if you are playing the games for fun.. because if every engagement would become predictible.. would it be still fun? i highly doubt it
maybe a solid rework could fix very annoying issues tho


The problem is not uncertainty, it's outcomes.

I can say i will cut one finger if i miss a coin flip. Alternative, i could throw a standard d6 dice and say you might get spit, pushed, slap, punch or kicked.
12 Dec 2020, 21:39 PM
#47
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Cold tech was a performance, design and balance problem. Many things which couldn't be touched due to limited power of mod tools.

Crits is mainly a balance problem with a slight touch of design issues. And it's not something hard to improve cause everything is already there.

My fix would have been to make it a constant but slower and get rid of blizzards. Basicly your troops just get cold and have to be garrisoned occasionally or put near a fire or suffer debuffs and eventually drop models. The idea is cool but the execution generally slowed games down

Similarly gun crits are a good addition, but could afford to be tweaked a bit
12 Dec 2020, 22:38 PM
#48
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

+1
12 Dec 2020, 23:45 PM
#49
avatar of Kieselberg

Posts: 268

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2020, 19:19 PMPip


There's literally nothing wrong with engagements becoming predictable. Being able to predict the outcome of an action allows you to rely more on your own skill, rather than hoping a dice roll is in your favour.

There is no reason that a game with less RNG would be less fun than one with absurd levels of RNG.

I really don't see the removal of these things as "Watering down game features". They are not good features to begin with.


You are simply wrong.

This kind of RNG is exactly what makes the coh series unique. Take stuff like this away and it will become a streamline clone of whatever rts you like.

So boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorrriiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnngggg!

13 Dec 2020, 00:31 AM
#50
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 783

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2020, 11:25 AMVipper


One can avoided the chance of critical be retreating his vehicle before it is below the threshold



I was referring to your ability to reliably inflict crits, not avoid them. If you give a reliable or semi reliable way for a player to influence the rate main gun crits occur similarly to how a player can influence accuracy, I suppose I could be ok with main gun crits remaining-assuming there are counterplay options.
13 Dec 2020, 00:32 AM
#51
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 783



You are simply wrong.

This kind of RNG is exactly what makes the coh series unique. Take stuff like this away and it will become a streamline clone of whatever rts you like.

So boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorrriiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnngggg!



If you think taking away main gun crits and similar mechanics would make coh too similar to other rts, I have to question if you've played other rts at all.
Pip
13 Dec 2020, 00:37 AM
#52
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



You are simply wrong.

This kind of RNG is exactly what makes the coh series unique. Take stuff like this away and it will become a streamline clone of whatever rts you like.

So boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorrriiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnngggg!



RNG isnt the thing that makes CoH unique.

No it won't.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2020, 00:32 AMSerrith


If you think taking away main gun crits and similar mechanics would make coh too similar to other rts, I have to question if you've played other rts at all.


I'd have to agree.
13 Dec 2020, 00:58 AM
#53
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2020, 00:31 AMSerrith


I was referring to your ability to reliably inflict crits, not avoid them. If you give a reliable or semi reliable way for a player to influence the rate main gun crits occur similarly to how a player can influence accuracy, I suppose I could be ok with main gun crits remaining-assuming there are counterplay options.

what about snares on infantry? tied to a certain health threshold like engine damage now now. makes infantry support even more valuable. say 25% and a snare can mean a busted gun
Pip
13 Dec 2020, 01:51 AM
#54
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594


what about snares on infantry? tied to a certain health threshold like engine damage now now. makes infantry support even more valuable. say 25% and a snare can mean a busted gun


Honestly if that were the compromise, I'd take that over the current system.
13 Dec 2020, 02:31 AM
#55
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 783


what about snares on infantry? tied to a certain health threshold like engine damage now now. makes infantry support even more valuable. say 25% and a snare can mean a busted gun


jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2020, 01:51 AMPip


Honestly if that were the compromise, I'd take that over the current system.


Likewise. Not sure it would be ideal but at least you could build tactics and strategies based around it.

I think i would take it a step further and say that
"If a vehicle with engine damage and under 25% hp takes a hit from another damage dealing mobility disrupting ability/attack (artillery stun, aimed shot, tread shot etc.) the vehicle recieves a main gun crit."
13 Dec 2020, 07:48 AM
#56
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

Nice to see we are no longer at remove it period.

The main gun crit below 25% hp thresh hold next to already being snared. This should only be able to with snares is a good approach, i would like to see tanks or at guns still able to do this below 25% hp, only at 5% chance or even lower that gun gets destroyed but no hp damage (no egine damage). It can save the tank wich would otherwise have been destroyed.
13 Dec 2020, 07:55 AM
#57
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

What needs fixing is the high probability of AT rifles to cause criticals. They should be replaced by injured type criticals or removed.
MMX
13 Dec 2020, 08:54 AM
#58
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

i don't know. i could also be a specific trait of said rifles to compensate for their mediocre performance against late-game armour. but i'd also rather see other currently unused crits as you mentioned than main gun destroyed popping up so frequently.
13 Dec 2020, 08:58 AM
#59
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2020, 08:54 AMMMX
i don't know. i could also be a specific trait of said rifles to compensate for their mediocre performance against late-game armour. but i'd also rather see other currently unused crits as you mentioned than main gun destroyed popping up so frequently.

The already have specific traits, they always hit and the damage infatry.

The have little reason for good performance vs Super heavies. They are cheap, arrive early, the hit light vehicles, they counter medium tanks, they do deflection damage on super heavies from longer range than other hand held AT.

Weapon that perform adequately vs all target are not a good design especially for unit that can be blobed.
Pip
13 Dec 2020, 17:21 PM
#60
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

Nice to see we are no longer at remove it period.

The main gun crit below 25% hp thresh hold next to already being snared. This should only be able to with snares is a good approach, i would like to see tanks or at guns still able to do this below 25% hp, only at 5% chance or even lower that gun gets destroyed but no hp damage (no egine damage). It can save the tank wich would otherwise have been destroyed.


I'd still advocate for outright removal.
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