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[Winter Balance Update] OST Feedback

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12 Jan 2021, 18:34 PM
#701
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2021, 18:31 PMPip


Their strong combat performance isnt evidence of them not being burdened with tasks though. The point at which they stop being quite so good at fighting allied troops is the point at which they might actually have the time to get engineering done.

Also, just to be sure, you do realize you are in wrong thread to QQ about spios?
12 Jan 2021, 18:39 PM
#702
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2021, 13:21 PMA_E
Having played 10 competitive games as wehrmacht on the balance mod, I can confirm that they do seem a lot more viable in 1v1 when not using crutch infantry like ostruppen and assault grens. At least at my level when playing against rank 200-400 opponents.

I attribute this to the gren/mg42 formation changes, and the t70 nerf.

Most of the people in this thread have probably not even played 1 game on the balance mod, they shouldn't even be allowed to express their opinion on this topic in my genuine opinion.

Yes I'm gatekeeping, there should be a rule: "play before you form your opinions or STFU". We've all been guilty of this in the past but it doesn't mean we can't change.


Can u test 2v2? Where the chance of double teaming, hit with more varied counters, more defined area of ops. Which are more impactful.
Pip
12 Jan 2021, 18:40 PM
#703
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2021, 18:30 PMKatitof

I've said they are NOT overburdened by anything in early game.
Reading comprehension.


Both, repair time capacity and offensive capabilities.


And what is your point here?
Its not like tripple kubel or something is meta opening, so spios don't repair anything prior to luchs/puma anyway.


Yes they are, in comparison to other engineer units.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H5z6szCfhmAAnDprmgwLzc-viZg4HPhKZshNLErvnck/edit#gid=1412677216 Offensive capabilities, yes, repair speed, no. RoyEs are approximately as good at repairing as Spios when they have their fifth man.

Why are you inventing some ludicrous "Triple Kubel" scenario? Does any faction build three ultralight vehicles as their opening? OKW building a kubelwagen is not exceedingly rare. I use Kubels in many of my (2v2) openings, dependent on the map.

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2021, 18:34 PMKatitof

Also, just to be sure, you do realize you are in wrong thread to QQ about spios?


Mentioning that Spios have a lot to do early game isnt "QQing", even if you desperately want it to be. Though this is indeed the wrong thread for this.

12 Jan 2021, 19:10 PM
#704
avatar of Shuter_FR

Posts: 29

Hi,

Nothing about Pak-43 shooting through buildings ?
We are in STR game and I don't understand why it's possible to do that,

The Brit Pounder position don't have that, why only OST ?

Give me reasons to keep that ?
Pip
12 Jan 2021, 19:22 PM
#705
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

Because the Pak-43 is;

A: Doctrinal

B: (more importantly) Far more vulnerable to attack than the 17 pounder, as the crew can be killed.

If the PAK couldn't shoot through things it would be basically unusable... and it isnt exactly all that good at the moment.
12 Jan 2021, 20:55 PM
#706
avatar of Thamor

Posts: 290

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2021, 17:22 PMPip


RE sure, but Sturmpioneers? No, they're already heavily burdened. Sturms are expected to lay mines, wire (With wire that takes significantly longer to lay than normal), repair vehicles (Alone, until lategame, IF the OKW player has gone mechanised), heal (If the player hasn't gone Battlegroup), and act as OKW's assault infantry. They just don't have the time to sandbag at the moment.

This is compounded by their expense and pop-cap pricing that means getting more than one Sturm is simply non-viable in most games (And they are comparatively difficult to replace).

As much as Sandbags on Mainlines is AIDS, I think that OKW are honestly the only faction that can't justify taking it away from them... unless they had access to a cheaper engineer unit to supplement Sturms.


All of what you said OST pio is doing + additionally only one who can build sandbags, have to build buildings. OST pioneer is the most heavily overburdened unit in the game.
Pip
13 Jan 2021, 00:43 AM
#707
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2021, 20:55 PMThamor


All of what you said OST pio is doing + additionally only one who can build sandbags, have to build buildings. OST pioneer is the most heavily overburdened unit in the game.


Yes, but you generally have two OST pioneers, even quite early on in some builds, whereas you simply cannot justify two Sturms in most cases.
14 Jan 2021, 00:09 AM
#709
avatar of Clarity

Posts: 479



I understand the logic, but it would leave soviets at a big disadvantidge vs them. This woyld mean soviets need early tools such as nades to have them be able to handle them, or the mg42 needs a hard nerf.


I would honestly say the best thing to do is to make it so Molotov's are automatically unlocked by building Tier 1 or Tier 2 and if that proves to be too early, make the unlock point Tier 3.
14 Jan 2021, 00:09 AM
#710
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2021, 00:43 AMPip

Yes, but you generally have two OST pioneers, even quite early on in some builds, whereas you simply cannot justify two Sturms in most cases.

IF sandbags go on Sturms, then decrease Sturm sandbag build time.

Still hard no on sandbags going to Sturms though. The unit already has too many things to do, and it also makes Volks less important.

On the topic of Ostheer, I like the idea suggested earlier that allows Grens to build trenches.
14 Jan 2021, 06:44 AM
#711
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2021, 00:09 AMClarity


I would honestly say the best thing to do is to make it so Molotov's are automatically unlocked by building Tier 1 or Tier 2 and if that proves to be too early, make the unlock point Tier 3.


Mollotov's are already not very good, making m a free unlock changes almost nothing, unlike giving grens sandbags.
You still gonna get wrecked on aproach even with oorah, still is easely dogded, the mg42 still supresses near instantly largly preventing even throwing it. Hence needing a hard nerf to balance grens building their own cover.
14 Jan 2021, 07:11 AM
#712
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2021, 00:09 AMSpoof

IF sandbags go on Sturms, then decrease Sturm sandbag build time.

Still hard no on sandbags going to Sturms though. The unit already has too many things to do, and it also makes Volks less important.

On the topic of Ostheer, I like the idea suggested earlier that allows Grens to build trenches.



I agree, Sandbags on Sturm Pioneers is a terrible idea.
Pip
14 Jan 2021, 11:54 AM
#713
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594




I agree, Sandbags on Sturm Pioneers is a terrible idea.


It would be fine if OKW had access to a cheaper engineer unit to supplement Sturmpioneers in their Engineering duties. "Luftwaffe Ground Forces" come to mind. Even though Sturms have a lot to do, if there were a second unit on the field to help them out then I think it would be... OK. You just can't justify having two Sturms around though, except in some very memey builds, so if they were OKW's only source of Sandbagging you'd basically be waving goodbye to Sandbags from OKW at all in most cases.

Volks, like Conscripts, also rely heavily on their Sandbags to be competitive, and don't scale nearly so well as Conscripts do into the lategame. This will also make Fusies almost a no-brainer.
15 Jan 2021, 02:40 AM
#714
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

IMO sturms should be cheaper, but they also shouldn't be the starting unit. Making volks the starting unit is probably too radical a change at this point, but I feel like it would allow more flexibility for sturm changes
15 Jan 2021, 04:39 AM
#715
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Mollotov's are already not very good, making m a free unlock changes almost nothing, unlike giving grens sandbags.
You still gonna get wrecked on aproach even with oorah, still is easely dogded, the mg42 still supresses near instantly largly preventing even throwing it. Hence needing a hard nerf to balance grens building their own cover.

If it's free then at least being dog shit is somewhat justified. Paying for it and it being dog shit is just a shitty. Being forced to pay extra for AT nades to justify giving the molitovs is a bit of a slap
15 Jan 2021, 07:04 AM
#716
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289


If it's free then at least being dog shit is somewhat justified. Paying for it and it being dog shit is just a shitty. Being forced to pay extra for AT nades to justify giving the molitovs is a bit of a slap


Yes i agree there, but just giving grens sandbags cus other inf have them will completly shift cons grens balance fully towards grens. Making the molly free with t1 or t2 build wont do anything to counteract grens getting sandbags.

Imo fewer main lines should have sandbags not more.
15 Jan 2021, 07:26 AM
#717
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Yes i agree there, but just giving grens sandbags cus other inf have them will completly shift cons grens balance fully towards grens. Making the molly free with t1 or t2 build wont do anything to counteract grens getting sandbags.

Imo fewer main lines should have sandbags not more.

I don't disagree at all
15 Jan 2021, 11:51 AM
#718
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289


I don't disagree at all


With grens getting sandbags, a nerf somewhere else for ost, free molly, or all together?
15 Jan 2021, 17:23 PM
#719
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



With grens getting sandbags, a nerf somewhere else for ost, free molly, or all together?

Yes
17 Jan 2021, 05:28 AM
#720
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

brumbar armor nerf, bunker buster nerf

remember what i said about BD sherman getting a pass?

bam here you go. luvnest got his ass handled by BD sherman. and that is with the 'awesome' medium counter jp4 in his unit composition.

imagine if you are wehrboo player countering BD sherman...lol stug


in 2v2 rank 1000, zooks + bd sherman is a build.




back to my question, what's brumbar compensation?
when allies faction with armor + AI gets the pass? :faint:
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