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[Winter Balance Update] OST Feedback

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5 Jan 2021, 07:12 AM
#401
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 07:10 AMvgfgff



Allies stock AI tank got nerfed too. T70/M8.
by the way.
KV-8 not fire 1 devastating shot like brumbar or KV-2.



only t70 nerfs was too heavy i agree.

kv8 flames are much better to clear weapon teams than brumbar

brumbar hits harder but more randomised.
5 Jan 2021, 07:14 AM
#402
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177



bascially so.

doctrine ostt and vsl got ripped apart. 7man cons got some rotation. penals got buffed. shocks, commandos, guards, assualt enginee, sniper pathfinders, officers...allies infantry still OP

now brumbar nerf from the heavens!

and the plan to nerf pgrens is coming!


cons got hard nerf. sniper got mirrored all stats.
Currently I don't see Penal are OP they bleeding too much especially mid-late game. and they have no upgrade no snare. Their PTRS are suck and cost too much(lose AI capability).

Brumbar just got armor reduction by 10. other remain same.
5 Jan 2021, 07:17 AM
#403
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 07:06 AMOlfin


Commanders units should give other strategy to the faction ,and not being OP.
maybe KV-8 is alright but the Churchill Crocodile is too strong and hard to counter.


kv8 rear armor 145
p4 near pen 125

brumbar rear armor 105/126
t3476 near pen 120
su85 far pen 220/242(patch)

time to apply same standards with brumbar nerfs!
5 Jan 2021, 07:22 AM
#404
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177



kv8 rear armor 145
p4 near pen 125

brumbar rear armor 105/126
t3476 near pen 120
su85 far pen 220/242(patch)

time to apply same standards with brumbar nerfs!


I think increase Brummbar rear armor should be fine.

T34-76 are unreliable.

Su-85 pen already reflect with panther acc buff.
5 Jan 2021, 07:25 AM
#405
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Maybe this would be better suited for the next doctrine patch but I figure since this is affecting core army stuff it would be best to post it here. It's not my idea but a tldr is that with some slight cost changes in the tech of Ostheer that literally doesn't affect anything timing wise you can leave a clear place for some future buffs to stuff like the Stug IIIE and Puma.



The Puma got changed to 5 CP + build time in T2 already. So changing the entire tech structure just for the StuG 3 ausf.E is not worth the hassle.
5 Jan 2021, 07:32 AM
#406
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 07:22 AMvgfgff


I think increase Brummbar rear armor should be fine.

T34-76 are unreliable.

Su-85 pen already reflect with panther acc buff.


the point is we need fairer justification for brumbar nerf

is it because of its high armor, drive it and kill infantry?
then that standards need to apply to similar allies heavy AI.

same thing with ripping off the arms of Ostt and VSL.
If they can overwhelmed early 1v1 non-doc units,
then that standards need to look into allies callin infantry and non-doc infantry vet bonus, as they can overwhelm late games in 2v2 and bigger game modes.
5 Jan 2021, 07:54 AM
#407
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


in my top 80 2v2, alies dont use M4 105 nor churchill anymore. KV is rarely. TD is 1 thing but AT gun is anohter.

105 is simply not worth it when the 75mm HE Sherman Dozer exists in better commanders.

Churchill is not worth when Comet is available

This has to do with alternative and not the units themselves that are fine.
5 Jan 2021, 07:57 AM
#408
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 06:40 AMvgfgff


Yes It is.
260 armor was bounced a lot AT even from SU-85. This is too hard to counter while brumbar fire 1-2shot kill whole squad.
They do have high HP that already need 5-6 shot form AT to take it down. plus they performance are better than KV2. I've test more than 10 time.

for the same thing on allies side
ISU-152 Got nerf too. both armor and range.

Brumbar has 15% to bounce a shot for SU-85 at range 60 that is hardly a lot.

Once vetted SU-85 will always penetrate the Brumbar.
5 Jan 2021, 08:19 AM
#409
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



Thanks for killing Ost late games, while Allies strong callin infantry are untouched?

Brumbar nerf is a joke, when it has to face 60TD.

You're welcome.
With next patch version both P4s will lose 10 armor.
5 Jan 2021, 08:21 AM
#410
avatar of mongman

Posts: 27

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 07:22 AMvgfgff


I think increase Brummbar rear armor should be fine.

T34-76 are unreliable.

Su-85 pen already reflect with panther acc buff.


sorry buddy but this terminator brummbar that lives in your head rent free does NOT EXIST, if your squad is clumped up t hen sure it could get a squad wipe but 90% of the timr it'll fuck up and hit one dude on the edge of the squad, also this 'allies are losing all their AI' bullshit is stupid, allies have the best infantry in the game so it's pretty fair imo that ostheer have a late game counter to them especially when stock ostheer only come with 4 man squads which are wipetastic
5 Jan 2021, 08:29 AM
#411
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793



sorry buddy but this terminator brummbar that lives in your head rent free does NOT EXIST, if your squad is clumped up t hen sure it could get a squad wipe but 90% of the timr it'll fuck up and hit one dude on the edge of the squad, also this 'allies are losing all their AI' bullshit is stupid, allies have the best infantry in the game so it's pretty fair imo that ostheer have a late game counter to them especially when stock ostheer only come with 4 man squads which are wipetastic


dont forget this patch gutted ostt and vsl, ost response to allies infantry plays.

i suspect the mod team internal target is to make ost the weakest faction, so called 'model' balanced. just because the last 1v1 championship saw an increase in ost faction, they are swiftly getting 're-balanced'

most championship before that had ost underperforming, espeically the 2v2 ones.
5 Jan 2021, 08:44 AM
#412
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



dont forget this patch gutted ostt and vsl, ost response to allies infantry plays.

Nerfs in this patch were aimed at overpowered units.
And boi, do I have a message for you about osttruppen and vsl, also congrats on beating coma! Seems like you were asleep for last 6 months to a year!

i suspect the mod team internal target is to make ost the weakest faction, so called 'model' balanced. just because the last 1v1 championship saw an increase in ost faction, they are swiftly getting 're-balanced'

Based on win ratios, soviets are the weakest faction.
5 Jan 2021, 09:31 AM
#413
avatar of VonManteuffel

Posts: 97



The Puma got changed to 5 CP + build time in T2 already. So changing the entire tech structure just for the StuG 3 ausf.E is not worth the hassle.


You mean, you killd the Ost Puma... 5 CP are way too late to get it on the field. I really hope this issue gets fixed in the upcomming commander patch. Right now, Mobile Defense doctrine seems dead.

My suggestion: Put Ost Puma in T2 so you have to build T2 and can't skip it. And then make it 2 CPs. With this, Puma should arrive at arround 6 minutes. If it's earlier, then increase build time. But ~6 min should be inline with OKW Puma, T70, Stuart and the new balanced AEC.
5 Jan 2021, 10:12 AM
#414
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

You mean, you killd the Ost Puma... 5 CP are way too late to get it on the field..


5 CP is exactly what it was when MobiDef completely dominated the meta, the only differences now are that it has a build time and that the Command Panzer IV is no longer a techless call-in (needs T3 now iirc). It's hard to judge the effectiveness of Ostheer commanders at the moment because Osttruppen and VSL Grens are so strong they are used in almost every game.
5 Jan 2021, 10:36 AM
#415
avatar of VonManteuffel

Posts: 97

Excuse me Sander, then I was wrong. I really thought Puma arrived earlier back in the days. But you are right, it was a panic button unit which could be instantly called into the batlefield.

But anyway, I still think it should be avaibale earlier. The reason for the Ost Puma beeing built is to counter allied LVs and light tanks. But therefore it arrives way too late. You still have to build AT guns or get a StuG. Then there is no need for a Ost Puma anymore.

My experience comes from 2vs2 and I think in 1vs1 thats no matter, because vehicles arrive a bit later and command points are gained faster. Thats why it was so popular in the past. But in 2vs2 it barely sees any use.

You just need to bring the timing in line with OKW Puma.
5 Jan 2021, 11:07 AM
#416
avatar of Thamor

Posts: 290



You mean, you killd the Ost Puma... 5 CP are way too late to get it on the field. I really hope this issue gets fixed in the upcomming commander patch. Right now, Mobile Defense doctrine seems dead.

My suggestion: Put Ost Puma in T2 so you have to build T2 and can't skip it. And then make it 2 CPs. With this, Puma should arrive at arround 6 minutes. If it's earlier, then increase build time. But ~6 min should be inline with OKW Puma, T70, Stuart and the new balanced AEC.


Yes to this, there should be a good option for OST player in commander to hard counter allied LV play. CP 5 Puma without needing tech or lower CP 2 puma with needing teching done.
5 Jan 2021, 12:10 PM
#417
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 11:07 AMThamor


Yes to this, there should be a good option for OST player in commander to hard counter allied LV play. CP 5 Puma without needing tech or lower CP 2 puma with needing teching done.


A one shotting teller mine, faust out ofvthe gat, high rof ans snare with vet atgun, double shrecks isent good enough on top of have earlier and not muchless impactfull light vehicles? You cant have it both ways.
5 Jan 2021, 12:59 PM
#418
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177



sorry buddy but this terminator brummbar that lives in your head rent free does NOT EXIST, if your squad is clumped up t hen sure it could get a squad wipe but 90% of the timr it'll fuck up and hit one dude on the edge of the squad, also this 'allies are losing all their AI' bullshit is stupid, allies have the best infantry in the game so it's pretty fair imo that ostheer have a late game counter to them especially when stock ostheer only come with 4 man squads which are wipetastic


Did you ever considered about some 90% of time a projectile from KV2 likely to dropped far far away from its target around 2-3 meters? Both situation we said is stupid RNG .

Why ost player liekly to stuck with 4 men instead of Its overall DPS /Acc/Ability?
Did you ever put stock penal/Cons/Riflemen/IS vs gren at long range and see what happened?

grenadier are only infantry that got "received damage reduction" any indirect fire are less effective on them .(direct fire too)
so they're not easy to get wiped.
5 Jan 2021, 13:13 PM
#419
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 12:59 PMvgfgff

Did you ever put stock penal/Cons/Riflemen/IS vs gren at long range and see what happened?


Ye and how many brainsells one must have to use penal/Cons/Riflemen vs grens at long range? And in equal cover IS will win vs Grens.

5 Jan 2021, 14:43 PM
#420
avatar of Thamor

Posts: 290



A one shotting teller mine, faust out ofvthe gat, high rof ans snare with vet atgun, double shrecks isent good enough on top of have earlier and not muchless impactfull light vehicles? You cant have it both ways.


Every single thing you said mostly allied infantry have the same available options or some options which are even better. Point of puma is actually having a mobile vehicle that can fight on par or better vs t70/stuart/daimler. Anyway even if you go for puma you get a pretty lackluster commander whose only reason to even take it is the Puma. Why it shouldn't be so late in getting it if you pick that commander.
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