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Sander's personal balance changes

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22 Oct 2020, 14:14 PM
#341
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I like the idea of the halftracks coming with special variants in other commanders. Maybe 5 man Gren and assault pgrens instead of the standard version of each. It let's those units see a bit more field but restricted since they are not the star of the commander anymore.
Pip
22 Oct 2020, 14:56 PM
#342
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

As someone else has said, I would personally rather any halftrack comes as-is, and without an infantry squad inside it. I'd rather have the option to build whatever infantry/the HT separately, rather than have to get both when I only want the HT.
23 Oct 2020, 15:33 PM
#344
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 416 | Subs: 1

Thoughts on V4


Just thinking aloud, I think it might actually be better to remove their G43 instead of the RA bonus. It would promote using 5 men Grens as your really sturdy mainlines with free healing while mixing in 1 to 2 LMG Grens inbetween for dps. Currently the G43 makes them too blob friendly, making them better at short/mid range, better at chasing and better at retaining dps. Removing their G43 would also mean less overlap in role of VSL Grens with G43 Grens.


I agree that the RA bonus is better for the upgrade than the G43. It seems the main reason it was added is that 5 K98ks can kill a soldier instantly, the problem that Infantry Sections used to have with 16 damage. I would recommend keeping the RA bonus and replacing the G43 with a worse weapon, like the Volksgrenadier StG44.
23 Oct 2020, 17:56 PM
#345
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

Here's some ideas to touch-up underused Ostheer commanders and abilities, let me know what you think. Might do Soviets as well in the future.

All great ideas and should be implemented asap. Not much more to add as it is all thoroughly explained in Ur post. What a "professional" post btw :)
24 Oct 2020, 09:46 AM
#346
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2

Here's some ideas to touch-up underused Ostheer commanders and abilities, let me know what you think. Might do Soviets as well in the future.


@JibberJabberJObber: Thx for your great post, underused Wehrmacht commanders are long overdue for some improvements. If you want to see what other players suggested, take a look here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/101020/6-changes-to-improve-wehrmacht-commanders-thematically/post/790046

Here is my own idea for a slight rework for "Mechanized" referring to your own suggestion:
- Mechanized Assault Group
- Smoke Bombs
- Spotting scopes
- Command P4
- Emergency repairs
leFh doesnt fit thematically to the commander. Vehicle repairs fits a lot better and will be helpful in all stages of the game.


24 Oct 2020, 10:34 AM
#347
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Oct 2020, 09:46 AMSmartie


@JibberJabberJObber: Thx for your great post, underused Wehrmacht commanders are long overdue for some improvements. If you want to see what other players suggested, take a look here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/101020/6-changes-to-improve-wehrmacht-commanders-thematically/post/790046

Here is my own idea for a slight rework for "Mechanized" referring to your own suggestion:
- Mechanized Assault Group
- Smoke Bombs
- Spotting scopes
- Command P4
- Emergency repairs
leFh doesnt fit thematically to the commander. Vehicle repairs fits a lot better and will be helpful in all stages of the game.




Yeah, I agree the LeFH doesn't fit the doctrine. This was actually my original commander rework proposal in the thread you linked:



With Fire and Advance being a timed ability that functions like Spotting Scopes with some additional benefits.

But if we are to get another patch, the changes should remain small, so everyone can agree upon them. Lots of small and safe changes is better than more drastic changes that would have more impact on balance and would thus require more testing and be fewer in number.

I don't think the LeFH fits the Storm Doctrine either, but that's the only other LeFH doctrine besides German Mechanized that's actually useful. If the LeFH got replaced on both doctrines because they're unthematic, you'd be softremoving the LeFH from Ostheer as a whole.

So that's why I only replaced 1 ability per commander. If it's ever within the scope of a future patch, 2 or even 3 ability replacements would be cool though.
24 Oct 2020, 10:48 AM
#348
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2



But if we are to get another patch, the changes should remain small, so everyone can agree upon them. Lots of small and safe changes is better than more drastic changes that would have more impact on balance and would thus require more testing and be fewer in number.


I agree with everyone you wrote.I just think changing the "gren mechanized group" to "Mechanized Assault Group" is no big deal so we could replace 1 more ability. The small changes to "Festung Support" and "Storm" will make this commanders more attractive, so removing 1 leFh should be doable.
24 Oct 2020, 11:01 AM
#349
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Oct 2020, 13:27 PMVipper

This the problem is not with shape but with that weapon profile modifiers did not have its damage updated and thus it does far to less damage (I think mortar half truck also)


Interesting.

I actually saw the ability used for the first time in a few years yesterday, in a match between GiaA and Jimmy. The incendiary bombs landed on two AT guns, one had 4 crew members and 40% hp total, the other had 2 crew members at full hp. The incendiary bombs weren't able to finish off a single crew member. GiaA did respond quickly by reversing them out of the flames, but they were in there for at least 5 seconds not receiving much damage.

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Oct 2020, 13:27 PMVipper

Riegel could use some changes such as lower time to plant and/or be available to more units maybe AT pgs?


It still wouldn't fit Storm Doctrine. That said, adding them to Schrecked Panzergrenadiers would be a good addition for Jaeger Armor and would be fair if the commander gets toned down in the 2 ways suggested (no Spotting Scope for Elefant and Stuka Dive Bomb replaced with AT strafe pass).

Could also add it to Joint Operations:
24 Oct 2020, 11:20 AM
#350
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Interesting.

I actually saw the ability used for the first time in a few years yesterday, in a match between GiaA and Jimmy. The incendiary bombs landed on two AT guns, one had 4 crew members and 40% hp total, the other had 2 crew members at full hp. The incendiary bombs weren't able to finish off a single crew member. GiaA did respond quickly by reversing them out of the flames, but they were in there for at least 5 seconds not receiving much damage.

I would expect that since the Soviet version is extremely lethal but Ostheer does very little. Think one need to look at all incendiary weapons and make some changes (think is mostly the DOT that is different).

As far as I can remember ostheer mortar ΗΤ are far less effective vs emplacement than Leig. Funny thing is that the pit can actually destroy the MHT since it can easily cause AOE damage.


It still wouldn't fit Storm Doctrine. That said, adding them to Schrecked Panzergrenadiers would be a good addition for Jaeger Armor and would be fair if the commander gets toned down in the 2 ways suggested (no Spotting Scope for Elefant and Stuka Dive Bomb replaced with AT strafe pass).
.

Well I mostly pointing out that Riegiel could use some changes.
24 Oct 2020, 11:56 AM
#351
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Oct 2020, 10:48 AMSmartie


I agree with everyone you wrote.I just think changing the "gren mechanized group" to "Mechanized Assault Group" is no big deal so we could replace 1 more ability. The small changes to "Festung Support" and "Storm" will make this commanders more attractive, so removing 1 leFh should be doable.


I did consider this while writing the post, but in the end opted with the idea to let Panzergrenadiers upgrade with the Support Package. You'd still get slightly improved repairs over most Ostheer doctrines if you let 2 Pios + a Pgren repair your vehicles.

For who doesn't know, the Support Package is a 30 munition upgrade that allows Panzergrenadiers to repair at a reduced rate (70%~ of a normal unvetted Pioneer), throw smoke nades and mark target enemy infantry.

Emergency Repairs + Support Package would be a bit too much, so if Emergency Repairs gets added then no Support Package imo. I'd also go for a 250 build at HQ at that point, cause the doctrine wouldn't provide a real motive to get Panzergrenadiers.
24 Oct 2020, 11:57 AM
#352
avatar of flyingpancake

Posts: 186 | Subs: 1

Can the Conscript PPSH assault package be looked at? It kinda lackluster as an upgrade and kinda expensive as a side grade. I would prepose 1 of 2 things:
1. change the muni cost to 45 for the 3 PPSH.
2. Give 6 PPSH instead of 3 for 60 muni.
24 Oct 2020, 12:15 PM
#353
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

Can the Conscript PPSH assault package be looked at? It kinda lackluster as an upgrade and kinda expensive as a side grade. I would prepose 1 of 2 things:
1. change the muni cost to 45 for the 3 PPSH.
2. Give 6 PPSH instead of 3 for 60 muni.


i mean at that point i'd much rather build shocks
24 Oct 2020, 12:21 PM
#354
avatar of flyingpancake

Posts: 186 | Subs: 1



i mean at that point i'd much rather build shocks

Conscripts have advantages over shocks in the way of building, manpower and popcap cost.
Saying that you rather get one unit over the other is not a good reason to keep a current ability that occupies a whole ability slot suboptimal.

Besides there is more instances of cheaper line assault infantry and elite assault infantry (cav rifles and rangers for example)
24 Oct 2020, 12:45 PM
#357
avatar of flyingpancake

Posts: 186 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Oct 2020, 12:39 PMVipper

power creep

The PPSH upgrade is worse compared to the SVT upgrade that cost the same muni, and worse compared to the 7 man upgrade that cost 10 muni less. If these 2 upgrades are balanced in you opinion (they are in mine) then the PPSH upgrade is underperforming or too expensive for what it does.
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