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Vote for: Perimeter Overwatch Change

18 May 2020, 13:06 PM
#21
avatar of BartonPL

Posts: 2806 | Subs: 6

I don't think it's OP, during this ability is active, every capped or decapped point disables this ability on that sector, it's only good cuz of the duration and it does not require much micro.

Actually i wouldnt change this ability at all, maybe even buff it cause it's expensive, there are much more bigger concerns about balance than this ability
18 May 2020, 13:13 PM
#22
avatar of Latch

Posts: 758

I dont thnik the ability is THAT good is it? I've used it a handfull of times and thought I simply wasted the munitions.

Hold the line however, how is this still under the radar?
18 May 2020, 13:16 PM
#23
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8



Well Tightrope used it incorrectly because none of his base buildings are set up, meaning none of the howitzers participated in barraging the enemy.

Here you see the full effect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDf6SDp1uX0

2 base howi's firing + occassional offmap mortar shells + occassional offmap howi shells.

Howitzers also can't barrage every single sector all at once, just focusing on one.
18 May 2020, 13:48 PM
#24
avatar of Latch

Posts: 758

I just did some testing and the ability is actually really good, the issue with it that makes it overperform in that it gives vision to all sectors once activated so the arty just constantly fires on all units.
18 May 2020, 13:50 PM
#25
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Still no "lower lethality" option in the poll.
18 May 2020, 14:59 PM
#26
avatar of Latch

Posts: 758

Still no "lower lethality" option in the poll.


Not even sure that that is the issue with the ability though, and what lethality, the AOE, the ROF the alpha damage?

Main issues I can see are then length that the ability lasts, and the fact it highlights all sectors that you own, so if you cap the whole map, you can see the whole map and arty and mortars fire constantly on every point and enemy is within your territory.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/624707027
18 May 2020, 16:17 PM
#27
avatar of ishtar
Senior Referee Badge

Posts: 16

That is a bit too much vision there
18 May 2020, 16:32 PM
#28
avatar of Latch

Posts: 758

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2020, 16:17 PMishtar
That is a bit too much vision there


And the vision isnt even shared with the enemy nor is their any indication that it gives vision to this extent which really needs to be changed.
18 May 2020, 16:40 PM
#29
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

I think the second option would be reasonable if the cost stays at 150 or above


Something to keep in mind is that reducing duration, decreasing cost and increasing the cooldown might very well have the unwanted effect of increasing munitions float which would result in spamming the flares and Concentrated Barrage and the Valentine Sexton barrage even more because it'd reduce/eliminate munitions management. Which might not be much of a net improvement.
18 May 2020, 17:08 PM
#30
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 416 | Subs: 1

What if the ability shot wide-radius flares over points rather than just giving full-sector sight?

Gameplay-wise, that would make the ability slightly dodgeable, the sight would be indicated to the enemy, and the user would have to do some scouting (which the Valentine can help with).

Other than that idea, duration is the main issue. I would advise against a triple nerf, too.
18 May 2020, 17:14 PM
#31
avatar of Kieselberg

Posts: 256

Removing Vision would solve the problem; Therefore youd still need scouting or the use of another scouting effect.
18 May 2020, 17:35 PM
#32
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2648 | Subs: 4



Something to keep in mind is that reducing duration, decreasing cost and increasing the cooldown might very well have the unwanted effect of increasing munitions float which would result in spamming the flares and Concentrated Barrage and the Valentine Sexton barrage even more because it'd reduce/eliminate munitions management. Which might not be much of a net improvement.


What about adding 3 red flares to concentrated barrage so the enemy can actually see it if he doesnt have his screen on the current flare at second 0 :snfPeter:

would make this ability a lot less frustrating.
18 May 2020, 17:48 PM
#33
avatar of borobadger

Posts: 184

In relation to this commander the Valentine is also hugely over performing in my opinion, there is basically no reason not to use it as Brits at the minute. Maybe only because the Assault ability in Commandos is also broken.
18 May 2020, 18:27 PM
#34
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Removing Vision would solve the problem; Therefore youd still need scouting or the use of another scouting effect.


It only gives a small vision buff to flagpoles and it doesn't target units in the FoW. It mostly relies on either friendly units to spot or sight from the flag poles.

However I figured out that the flag pole sight buff from Anvil Tactics stacks with the flag pole sight buff from PO and can make most of friendly territory visible in smaller maps because flagpoles get like 40 vision in total when PO is active with Anvil researched. Which is a pretty big problem to be honest as it does essentially make the ability mostly self-spotting.
18 May 2020, 19:22 PM
#35
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12979 | Subs: 1



Something to keep in mind is that reducing duration, decreasing cost and increasing the cooldown might very well have the unwanted effect of increasing munitions float which would result in spamming the flares and Concentrated Barrage and the Valentine Sexton barrage even more because it'd reduce/eliminate munitions management. Which might not be much of a net improvement.

The ability should not be in the commander. The sheer volume of arty this commander can produce is simply too much. Replace it with counter barrage that should also not be available in the emplacement commander.
18 May 2020, 19:44 PM
#36
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

Removing Vision would solve the problem; Therefore youd still need scouting or the use of another scouting effect.

It would also remove the point of the ability, there would be no reason what so ever over using any other offmap.
jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2020, 19:22 PMVipper

The ability should not be in the commander. The sheer volume of arty this commander can produce is simply too much. Replace it with counter barrage that should also not be available in the emplacement commander.

Have you checked the name and theme of the commander yet?
18 May 2020, 19:45 PM
#37
avatar of Latch

Posts: 758



It only gives a small vision buff to flagpoles and it doesn't target units in the FoW. It mostly relies on either friendly units to spot or sight from the flag poles.

However I figured out that the flag pole sight buff from Anvil Tactics stacks with the flag pole sight buff from PO and can make most of friendly territory visible in smaller maps because flagpoles get like 40 vision in total when PO is active with Anvil researched. Which is a pretty big problem to be honest as it does essentially make the ability mostly self-spotting.


Its vision is far more than just a buff:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/624707027?t=00h04m24s
18 May 2020, 20:12 PM
#38
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12979 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2020, 19:44 PMKatitof

Have you checked the name and theme of the commander yet?

Yes and an ability that fires howitzers on enemy artillery fits the commander perfectly.
18 May 2020, 20:29 PM
#39
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2020, 19:45 PMLatch
Its vision is far more than just a buff:


Yes I said that the small sight bonus from PO stacks/multiplies with the small sight bonus from Anvil which unintentionally gives the large LOS. The ability itself only gives an extra ~10 sight around flag poles which isn't a problem without the Anvil sight bonus.
18 May 2020, 22:51 PM
#40
avatar of Stein Grenadier

Posts: 69

I asked someone in our server to test some numbers. Looks like the first offmap shells from perimeter overwatch land after 8 seconds. Consistent 8s interval for mortars, 16s interval for offmap sexton barrage.

The first barrages from the base/command post come as early as 3.5s, with the reload time for each howitzer being ~7s, assuming they keep hitting a stationary target. If they switch targets, the fire rate understandably gets significantly worse due to traversing/set up.


Shell density for perimeter overwatch is approximately 7.5 mortar shells per minute, 5 offmap shells per minute and ~17.0 shells per minute (at most) for both command post howitzers.

Ability costs 225, iirc.

Comparatively, the sector overwatch from the ostheer version dumps 1 shell every 4s, with each shell coming in faster the longer the target is in sight.

Sector artillery costs 200 muni, and assuming I did the math right, with the interval multiplier (x0.85), Reaches 1s shell interval if the target is kept in sight for 20 seconds. Giving at an approximate maximum number of shots of over 45 on its howitzer shells, with a bare minimum of 10 shells if the interval thing is borked.

Over all, for its cost, while it doesn't have as much magical alpha as sector overwatch, it does last for quite some time.
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