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Medic heal on Grens

12 May 2020, 12:09 PM
#61
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

What was the new implementation fixing then?
If the bug was that you could heal multiple squads with just one medkit due to improper implementation, the "fix" was really just implementing the glitch properly and reproducible?


I suppose it was a matter of if it can't be fixed then it might as well become a feature so at least it's fair for everyone. And I suppose OKW could use the buff in the healing department. But I wasn't on the team back then so I don't know the specifics.
12 May 2020, 12:37 PM
#62
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321

Nerfing the UKF medkits, making them the same as grenadiers, would be a better option imo.

Only the vet 1 requirement is something I don't understand, make it stock or an upgrade like the UKF. Change vet 1 into something else i.e. spread the bonuses of vet 2&3 more equally.
12 May 2020, 12:45 PM
#63
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Nerfing the UKF medkits, making them the same as grenadiers, would be a better option imo.

Only the vet 1 requirement is something I don't understand, make it stock or an upgrade like the UKF. Change vet 1 into something else i.e. spread the bonuses of vet 2&3 more equally.

But brits healing does not work same as ost healing.
Brits medkits are balanced around being primary healing method, with their medics being awkward and only supplemental.
With ost, its reversed, medics being main heal, medkits being just supplemental option and you still have 251 healing on top of that all.
MMX
12 May 2020, 12:56 PM
#64
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1



Sorry for the slight off-topic, but I am quite curious here:

What was the new implementation fixing then?
If the bug was that you could heal multiple squads with just one medkit due to improper implementation, the "fix" was really just implementing the glitch properly and reproducible?

Well, it actually does not matter. The current form of the med crate is okay. It encourages blobbing, but apart from that it works fine.


yeah i think all it does is make it less punishing not to abuse the bug rather than fixing it. with the aura heal you can at least get almost the same result as with the glitch, so it's a pretty good workaround i guess
12 May 2020, 12:56 PM
#65
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

UKF have healing on IS, a healing/reinforcing structure and Medics.

Only the healing on IS is far superior to that of Grenadiers. Actually UKF has very little to be jealous from Ostheer when it comes to healing.
12 May 2020, 13:15 PM
#66
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2020, 12:45 PMKatitof

But brits healing does not work same as ost healing.
Brits medkits are balanced around being primary healing method, with their medics being awkward and only supplemental.
With ost, its reversed, medics being main heal, medkits being just supplemental option and you still have 251 healing on top of that all.

I disagree. Brits can get the same healing ost gets and still have the med kits to make it all irrelevant. They don't have the HT heals but they have to forward base and now medics (and the forward assembly can also reinforce)
You could give them each and every type of healing in the game and they would still only need and only use the AOE no effort medkits they have now. You don't even need to stop moving to use them for christ sake....
12 May 2020, 14:00 PM
#67
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

The healing could look like this:
1. It is free but you need to be outside of combat and manually click on the squad to heal.
2. You could also click on a crawling "killed" soldier and "add" it to your own squad for a manpower cost. This procedure would have no munition cost.

Such heal would be unique to ost not a copy of UKF heal. It could help with recrewing weapons after an encounter as ost often is left with 3 men squads. It wouldn't be too strong imo. Just a "nice touch" to existing healing. It still would be much less effective than UKF heal but still sort of "occupy" vet slot.
12 May 2020, 14:23 PM
#68
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

The healing could look like this:
1. It is free but you need to be outside of combat and manually click on the squad to heal.
2. You could also click on a crawling "killed" soldier and "add" it to your own squad for a manpower cost. This procedure would have no munition cost.

Such heal would be unique to ost not a copy of UKF heal. It could help with recrewing weapons after an encounter as ost often is left with 3 men squads. It wouldn't be too strong imo. Just a "nice touch" to existing healing. It still would be much less effective than UKF heal but still sort of "occupy" vet slot.

I don't actually hate this, especially since the heals are not on pgrens anymore. It should only be able to zombify ost units and cons/penals (hilfswilliger!) it wouldn't seem right nabbing rifles or tommies or any elite troop
12 May 2020, 14:42 PM
#69
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351


I don't actually hate this, especially since the heals are not on pgrens anymore. It should only be able to zombify ost units and cons/penals (hilfswilliger!) it wouldn't seem right nabbing rifles or tommies or any elite troop

Thanks.
Yeah. But there is room for some balancing with less dead/more dead models to be used. Also one can play with the idea whether the dead model would remain its stats or just become a regular model of a given unit. I also thought of just reinforcing through heal rather making the unit larger. But all the above ideas could be toyed with.

Edit: but I think the idea to actually add a fallen mode to the squad could be really good.
12 May 2020, 15:01 PM
#70
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2020, 12:56 PMVipper
UKF have healing on IS, a healing/reinforcing structure and Medics.

Only the healing on IS is far superior to that of Grenadiers. Actually UKF has very little to be jealous from Ostheer when it comes to healing.


The Ost medic bunker is a lot cheaper than the British forward assembly healing which is basically the same. This gives you a lot more freedom for build orders (two or three medic IS are needed at least).

Med bunker also doesn't cost popcap unlike medic squads or USF ambulance.

Apples and oranges
12 May 2020, 15:06 PM
#71
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

The healing could look like this:
1. It is free but you need to be outside of combat and manually click on the squad to heal.
2. You could also click on a crawling "killed" soldier and "add" it to your own squad for a manpower cost. This procedure would have no munition cost.

Such heal would be unique to ost not a copy of UKF heal. It could help with recrewing weapons after an encounter as ost often is left with 3 men squads. It wouldn't be too strong imo. Just a "nice touch" to existing healing. It still would be much less effective than UKF heal but still sort of "occupy" vet slot.


Healing crawlers into a zombie entity of the gren squad would certainly be interesting, but it may be a lot of coding and outside the mod teams capabilities.

I like it, it would also have counterplay as allies can shoot or blow up crawlers.
12 May 2020, 15:11 PM
#72
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



The Ost medic bunker is a lot cheaper than the British forward assembly healing which is basically the same. This gives you a lot more freedom for build orders (two or three medic IS are needed at least).

Med bunker also doesn't cost popcap unlike medic squads or USF ambulance.

Pls clarify how much is a lot in you pinion because the bunker is not a lot cheaper than FA...

Forward assembly can also reinforce and call artillery. Can even be turned if FRP (without healing).

251 has pop and has worse healing then ambulance or medic

I am not sure what healing option in you opinion Ostheer have that UKF are jealous of.

I am pretty sure most player would swap UKF medic for Ostheer ones any day and most would trade

medic/command bunker for FA.


Apples and oranges


Eat fruits they are good for you.
12 May 2020, 15:21 PM
#73
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 682



The Ost medic bunker is a lot cheaper than the British forward assembly healing which is basically the same. This gives you a lot more freedom for build orders (two or three medic IS are needed at least).

Med bunker also doesn't cost popcap unlike medic squads or USF ambulance.

Apples and oranges


I had no idea brit and USF healing was so much worse than ostheers.
12 May 2020, 15:47 PM
#74
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351



Healing crawlers into a zombie entity of the gren squad would certainly be interesting, but it may be a lot of coding and outside the mod teams capabilities.

I like it, it would also have counterplay as allies can shoot or blow up crawlers.

Yep, exactly. Thanks. I'd say the minimum could be to make it reinforce from the crawling entity or just dead entity even leaving it on ground. This should be feasible. More ambitious thing would be to make the entity stand up and join the squad with full health.

The idea itself would also help the squad to sort of auto heal, which they can't do now.

Edit: the least could be done is to make vet1 heal able units to use crawlers as mobile zombie reinforce points. They could be clicked to reinforce, the more times you click before the crawler stops crawling the more models you will reinforce :)
12 May 2020, 16:09 PM
#75
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



The Ost medic bunker is a lot cheaper than the British forward assembly healing which is basically the same. This gives you a lot more freedom for build orders (two or three medic IS are needed at least).

Med bunker also doesn't cost popcap unlike medic squads or USF ambulance.

Apples and oranges

Its a bot more expensive for sure but also more encompassing. You can reinforce and arm your infantry from it and as vip said call in arty which can be very useful. It's kind of a number of things smooshed into one and priced accordingly. Regardless, mobile aoe heals for dirt cheap is somewhat stupid frankly.
12 May 2020, 16:22 PM
#76
avatar of madin2

Posts: 203

The "new" UKF Medics are bugged as hell the med bunker or the Soviet heal is way better.
The only useful thing the medics can do is capping in the early game
12 May 2020, 17:47 PM
#77
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833


Its a bot more expensive for sure but also more encompassing. You can reinforce and arm your infantry from it and as vip said call in arty which can be very useful. It's kind of a number of things smooshed into one and priced accordingly. Regardless, mobile aoe heals for dirt cheap is somewhat stupid frankly.


Forward assembly actually has a bigger hitbox that vipper conveniently ignored

The thing costs an arm and a leg to upgrade and gets blasted down pretty fast.

This is also why the arty ability you listed is useless, the short range and fragile nature of the FA makes it unusable because even a rak shooting at it will be out of range.

Not saying FA is bad, it's better than med bunker in team games. but as Brits I would swap it with med bunker in 1vs1 in a heartbeat when every 100mp here or there counts. Especially with the 450ish mp you need for Tommies upgrades.

Which goes in with why vipper was wrong and my original reply, Med bunker has the edge in 1s and FA has the edge in team games. Apples and oranges
12 May 2020, 18:17 PM
#78
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Forward assembly actually has a bigger hitbox that vipper conveniently ignored

The thing costs an arm and a leg to upgrade and gets blasted down pretty fast.

This is also why the arty ability you listed is useless, the short range and fragile nature of the FA makes it unusable because even a rak shooting at it will be out of range.

Not saying FA is bad, it's better than med bunker in team games. but as Brits I would swap it with med bunker in 1vs1 in a heartbeat when every 100mp here or there counts. Especially with the 450ish mp you need for Tommies upgrades.

Which goes in with why vipper was wrong and my original reply, Med bunker has the edge in 1s and FA has the edge in team games. Apples and oranges

Calm down it's 50 mp more and the exact same muni cost, and it shouldn't even be getting shot at in the first place (so target size is largely irrelevant).

The bigger (and only) issue is that it takes a really really long time to build
12 May 2020, 19:52 PM
#79
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Forward assembly actually has a bigger hitbox that vipper conveniently ignored

The thing costs an arm and a leg to upgrade and gets blasted down pretty fast.

This is also why the arty ability you listed is useless, the short range and fragile nature of the FA makes it unusable because even a rak shooting at it will be out of range.

Not saying FA is bad, it's better than med bunker in team games. but as Brits I would swap it with med bunker in 1vs1 in a heartbeat when every 100mp here or there counts. Especially with the 450ish mp you need for Tommies upgrades.

Which goes in with why vipper was wrong and my original reply, Med bunker has the edge in 1s and FA has the edge in team games. Apples and oranges

I am not sure why you think I am obliged to list every detail of every unit, but if you have the actual numbers of hitboxes pls provide them I do not.

What you conveniently seem to leave out is that a bunker has 480 HP while FA has 700. It also has 10 armor instead of 35.

A forward assembly with medic cost 200 hundred Manpower and 60 munition and can do what medic/command bunker can do for 300 manpower/120 munition.

If in your opinion bunker is fine by me but the healing IS is way better than the one grenadier have.
12 May 2020, 20:05 PM
#80
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2020, 12:45 PMKatitof

But brits healing does not work same as ost healing.
Brits medkits are balanced around being primary healing method, with their medics being awkward and only supplemental.


The forward assembly isn't even that awkward, and now they have an option in their HQ. I don't see any reason brit medkits should stay exactly as they are

The HQ option has some bugs still unless i missed a hotfix, which should get fixed
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