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russian armor

Medic heal on Grens

12 May 2020, 23:02 PM
#81
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Forward assembly actually has a bigger hitbox that vipper conveniently ignored

The thing costs an arm and a leg to upgrade and gets blasted down pretty fast.

This is also why the arty ability you listed is useless, the short range and fragile nature of the FA makes it unusable because even a rak shooting at it will be out of range.

Not saying FA is bad, it's better than med bunker in team games. but as Brits I would swap it with med bunker in 1vs1 in a heartbeat when every 100mp here or there counts. Especially with the 450ish mp you need for Tommies upgrades.

Which goes in with why vipper was wrong and my original reply, Med bunker has the edge in 1s and FA has the edge in team games. Apples and oranges

its not a concrete fucking bunker designed to hold the front by its lonesome. put it behind a shot blocker and use it as a forward staging area. the arty has decent enough range that if you placed it well enough it cant help when you get pushed.
for setting up in base you are right that the bunker is better simply due to cost, but you get a lot more outof the FA thast makes it worth it on the front as long as you use it. hell just not having to run to base if you wanna grab a bren is great.
13 May 2020, 00:26 AM
#82
avatar of IJustDontCare

Posts: 62

I just want my med bunker to give me free grens again like in coh1 :(
13 May 2020, 00:34 AM
#83
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2020, 19:52 PMVipper

...bunker has 480 HP while FA has 700. It also has 10 armor...

A forward assembly with medic cost 200 hundred Manpower and 60 munition and can do what medic/command bunker can do for 300 manpower/120 munition.

I just wanted to bump this.
+1 agreed perfectly.

UKF OP (big news!)
13 May 2020, 02:14 AM
#84
avatar of VIGNASH

Posts: 187

How about merging med and command bunker into one? Puts less strain on muni for ost's early game if you decide to make a early game soft retreat forward point...maybe it could be tied to the tech BP1 or BP1+T2 building.
13 May 2020, 11:50 AM
#85
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321

Easy fix if you ask me. Change the IS healing to single squad healing like the grenadier or the otherway around, change the grenadier healing to area effect.

I still think it shouldn't cost the grenadiers a whole vet slot.
13 May 2020, 13:46 PM
#86
avatar of VIGNASH

Posts: 187

Or how about you give them free med kits after upgrade to LMG like how 5-man grens get free med kits after the upgrade. That will work.
13 May 2020, 16:29 PM
#87
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post13 May 2020, 13:46 PMVIGNASH
Or how about you give them free med kits after upgrade to LMG like how 5-man grens get free med kits after the upgrade. That will work.


Cool idea, it also wouldn't buff 5 men Grens further which are already really strong.

You'd also see more 251 centered gameplay with both providing free healing options offsetting the need of an early medic bunker.

I'd use normal LMG Grens much more if such a change got implemented. Currently my loadout consists of an Osttruppen commander, an Assault Grenadier commander and the 5 men Gren commander.
13 May 2020, 17:12 PM
#88
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833


its not a concrete fucking bunker designed to hold the front by its lonesome. put it behind a shot blocker and use it as a forward staging area. the arty has decent enough range that if you placed it well enough it cant help when you get pushed.
for setting up in base you are right that the bunker is better simply due to cost, but you get a lot more outof the FA thast makes it worth it on the front as long as you use it. hell just not having to run to base if you wanna grab a bren is great.


Where did I claim it was a "concrete bunker"? I basically said it's vulnerable. It's better than Ost bunker in teamgames but also is a rocket magnet and dies pretty quick for how expensive the medic and retreat point combo of two FA's are.

in 1's you just stick both of them next to a HQ for healing, in this regard I think the Ost bunker is better because it's cheaper. Compounded by the MP brits have to sink on upgrades.
13 May 2020, 17:16 PM
#89
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833



The forward assembly isn't even that awkward, and now they have an option in their HQ. I don't see any reason brit medkits should stay exactly as they are

The HQ option has some bugs still unless i missed a hotfix, which should get fixed


I would be fine with meds getting removed from tommies and medic FA getting mirrored with ost bunker in price. Maybe even remove Pyro tommies and Sniper pyro, give RE pio LoS, mortar in T1 and give UKF land mattress stock at hammer tech.

Then brits could have a build order without 3 tommies (or buggy medics).

Some would say this is removing the flavor from the game but if making brits an Ost clone is the only way to keep them competative and stop the Axis crybabies lets go for it.
13 May 2020, 17:23 PM
#90
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351


The thing costs an arm and a leg.

It is actually cheaper than a bunker.
13 May 2020, 17:29 PM
#91
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2020, 19:52 PMVipper

I am not sure why you think I am obliged to list every detail of every unit, but if you have the actual numbers of hitboxes pls provide them I do not.

What you conveniently seem to leave out is that a bunker has 480 HP while FA has 700. It also has 10 armor instead of 35.
A forward assembly with medic cost 200 hundred Manpower and 60 munition and can do what medic/command bunker can do for 300 manpower/120 munition.

If in your opinion bunker is fine by me but the healing IS is way better than the one grenadier have.


Not every detail, I never claimed that. But relevant stats like survivability should be compared.

Armor is irrelevant because all common counters and threats to these structures like rocket arty will penetrate 100%. Hitbox size and health should rather be mentioned instead. Because these things make a difference when a stuka ze fuss barrage lands on them (a common theme in most games), armor does not.
13 May 2020, 19:11 PM
#92
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Not every detail, I never claimed that. But relevant stats like survivability should be compared.

Armor is irrelevant because all common counters and threats to these structures like rocket arty will penetrate 100%. Hitbox size and health should rather be mentioned instead. Because these things make a difference when a stuka ze fuss barrage lands on them (a common theme in most games), armor does not.

Ok, so you failed to mention that bunker have 480 an can be 1 shoted by satchel/gammon while FA have 700 and can not and you also failed to provide the actual hit box sizes.

Feel free do add any stat you feel is relevant but simply do not accuse me for not providing it.

Now can we return to grenadier medic packages?
13 May 2020, 23:28 PM
#93
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Everyone arguing grens med kits but the real one damaged is the game balance
kappa

Gren heal is underused wether is that meant or not. People should start from the begining and say if they really want to make it a really good niche ability or a core ability. Currently it is none, even when i use it from time to time (maybe once in 1/10 games)

My suggestion is either make it instant (the cast time is eternally long) or allow the healing to take place even under combat. I want a core ability.
14 May 2020, 22:16 PM
#94
avatar of grammar

Posts: 28

In-combat healing is bad.
15 May 2020, 08:13 AM
#95
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post14 May 2020, 22:16 PMgrammar
In-combat healing is bad.


That's why it doesn't exist in coh2.
15 May 2020, 12:49 PM
#96
avatar of oootto92

Posts: 177

Turn the gren medkit into automatic self heal so it doesn't have the extra micro tax. I personally 90% use the ability on the unit itself when after engagement I have 4 models low health so its worth it. Or I just spam it if I get it for free after 5 men upgrade. And yeah it might sound stupid, but using the medkits in their current state can be very micro taxing in already very APM heavy faction. With this change of it affecting gren only it should of course see some price adjustment.

TL;DR Just turn it into cheaper gren-only automatic self heal with a hotkey M if you want it to see more action.
15 May 2020, 14:33 PM
#97
avatar of TomDRV

Posts: 112

- Both tommy & gren medkits to a one-time upgrade like the tommy medkit.
- Make them both function as the gren kit does now, but just no usage cost (because it's now a one-time upgrade)

- Increase cost of ost commmand bunker upgrade, make it reinforce the bunker (for more health and armour) and act as a forward retreat.
- Give UKF HQ a medic upgrade, remove the forward assembly medic upgrade and give the medic squad a stand-ground heal-nearby toggle (but that's not an AoE)
15 May 2020, 18:25 PM
#98
avatar of grammar

Posts: 28

My suggestion is either make it instant (the cast time is eternally long) or allow the healing to take place even under combat. I want a core ability.


jump backJump back to quoted post14 May 2020, 22:16 PMgrammar
In-combat healing is bad.




That's why it doesn't exist in coh2.


15 May 2020, 18:43 PM
#99
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Gotta remeber that oat medkits come from a time where healing was actually impactful. Soviet had to return to base and ost had to either soft retreat (or full retreat) to a bunker or take the time to heal behind the front. Each of these resulted in giving up map control in favor of healing. The med kit ability isn't bad, and from a game design standpoint of decisions matter its great as well. Heals with minimal impact on economy or map control make the game more arcade and less strategic. Denying the enemy munitions points should be as impactful as denying the enemy fuel
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