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Tommy shouldn't have received the moving accuracy buff

20 Apr 2020, 12:31 PM
#21
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



viker K doesnt need to be stock. If bren is reworked to be BAR - like, forcus on mid to close range, the long range DPS role can be take by pyro sections with scope enfield.

That is an option also.

In that case I would make the scope Enfields a separate upgrade from pyro thou, since I do not like the idea of "mainline" infatry with increased sight and able to call-in smoke/arty.
20 Apr 2020, 12:32 PM
#22
avatar of TomDRV

Posts: 112

I am also not a fan of the moving accuracy change as it saps more diversity away. I think they should have looked into diversifying the upgrade paths and found a way to adjust Tommie chase potential in that way (5 man squad removes penalty like recon upgrade did in coh:of for example) and looked at volks hardcounteirng the entire Brit t0 after okw places their first truck so they could play for more than the first minute with the cover penalty.


*cough*

Something like this? (The side-track suggestion in the OP)

https://www.coh2.org/topic/105071/opinion-suggestions-ukf-balancing-is-overthought

I think defensive tommies are great. Instead of trying to dial down the uniqueness and make them more standardised and jack-of-all-trades. They need to start as defensive, then get the option to re specialise into something more mobile. In later game, it would encourage some more inter-squad synergy and micro, rather than low-brain-power blobbing.
20 Apr 2020, 12:56 PM
#23
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

I don't think any brit player would complain if you turned tommies into riflemen clones

I said it before the tournement and I'll say it again, imo rifles are the better unit. BARS and StGs are a lot less micro intensive than Brens that need micro to be perfectly placed in cover every engagement or you will be hit with the DPS penalty. For this reason bren tommies are a lot less effective in "tactical map control groups" the likes of CaptSprice, Paula or kimbo love using.

This along with trade offs (Bren has less DPS than Enfields in CQB, less muni for nades, less moving acc) means players would much rather run with bolstered rifle tommies and throw muni into commander abilities (Assault being a main one there). Despite the extra long range DPS brens provide.

Maybe someone should throw up a chart to look at moving Acc on mainlines with and without upgrades. Food for thought in the context of the thread.
20 Apr 2020, 14:27 PM
#24
avatar of DAZ187

Posts: 465

just move all sandbags to engineer units as a start. no mainline infantry should be aloud to build cover.
20 Apr 2020, 15:26 PM
#25
avatar of TomDRV

Posts: 112

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2020, 14:27 PMDAZ187
just move all sandbags to engineer units as a start. no mainline infantry should be aloud to build cover.


They do IRL, I think it's great it gives them something to do when fighting has gone quiet. Needing an engineer squads to fill sandbags would feel weird . . . and engineers squads are pretty over tasked already. They've always got something to do.
20 Apr 2020, 15:27 PM
#26
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2020, 14:27 PMDAZ187
just move all sandbags to engineer units as a start. no mainline infantry should be aloud to build cover.


dont for get to move HEAT grendade from Ro.E to tommy then :v
20 Apr 2020, 15:53 PM
#27
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2020, 14:27 PMDAZ187
just move all sandbags to engineer units as a start. no mainline infantry should be aloud to build cover.


The more I play, the more I realize this is true.
20 Apr 2020, 15:55 PM
#28
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1951



Pretty sure Relic doesn't care about cover bonus.



It's entirely possible that they do. Some of the things like "free" officers for USF, "free" tech for OKW, and emplacements for UKF are part of what Relic considers core features for the factions.

Unless I'm missing something, the UKF sections now have the SAME moving accuracy penalty as every other faction's mainline infantry. OMG, what are we going to do?
20 Apr 2020, 16:05 PM
#29
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 940

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2020, 15:55 PMGrumpy


Unless I'm missing something, the UKF sections now have the SAME moving accuracy penalty as every other faction's mainline infantry. OMG, what are we going to do?


Kill them with Obers T4 onwards. Give real meaning to the words 'Iron Men of the Reich'.

I stopped being so aggressive with my volks and usually settled for shootouts with IS, behind green cover. Can't agree with removing sandbags from volks, they'll get vaporised by LMG infantry. That's against tactical design and play, should be mitigating your enemy's strengths with preparation and careful thinking.
20 Apr 2020, 16:29 PM
#30
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

The out of cover/in cover crap needs to end, the design has clearly failed. They need to turn sections into normal infantry.

I agree that the mechanic is not best the first and only mainline infantry with multiple upgrade paths...
I mean, you can count on ostruppen, their cover mechanic is not a complete failure.
20 Apr 2020, 17:09 PM
#31
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2020, 15:55 PMGrumpy

Unless I'm missing something, the UKF sections now have the SAME moving accuracy penalty as every other faction's mainline infantry. OMG, what are we going to do?


There are plenty of differences in the moving accuracy of the mainline units.

Riflemen Garand has 0.6. All the weapon upgrades also have different moving accuracy values as well as different moving burst duration multipliers and moving cooldown duration multipliers.

So if we compare double BAR riflemen with LMG Grenadiers for example the DPS output on the move is going to be insanely high. Because BARs have 0.7 accuracy on the move while Grenadier LMG42s don't shoot at all.

20 Apr 2020, 17:14 PM
#32
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3


I agree that the mechanic is not best the first and only mainline infantry with multiple upgrade paths...
I mean, you can count on ostruppen, their cover mechanic is not a complete failure.


Osttruppen have a much lower power level though and aren't really a mainline infantry, more of a pure defensive and capping unit. You can't really say they're the same case as sections.


jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2020, 15:55 PMGrumpy
Unless I'm missing something, the UKF sections now have the SAME moving accuracy penalty as every other faction's mainline infantry. OMG, what are we going to do?


Are you trolling? You do realize they are by far and with no contest whatsoever the absolute best non-elite infantry unit in the game in cover, right? They even have stock trenches.
20 Apr 2020, 17:32 PM
#33
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1951



There are plenty of differences in the moving accuracy of the mainline units.

Riflemen Garand has 0.6. All the weapon upgrades also have different moving accuracy values as well as different moving burst duration multipliers and moving cooldown duration multipliers.

So if we compare double BAR riflemen with LMG Grenadiers for example the DPS output on the move is going to be insanely high. Because BARs have 0.7 accuracy on the move while Grenadier LMG42s don't shoot at all.



I should've been a little more specific, I was talking about the basic weapons that squad have. I didn't know that USF got 0.6 for the Garand. Upgrades are all over the place.
20 Apr 2020, 17:36 PM
#34
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1951



Osttruppen have a much lower power level though and aren't really a mainline infantry, more of a pure defensive and capping unit. You can't really say they're the same case as sections.




Are you trolling? You do realize they are by far and with no contest whatsoever the absolute best non-elite infantry unit in the game in cover, right? They even have stock trenches.


Are you trolling? How do you twist a comment about moving accuracy into something about cover and trenches?
20 Apr 2020, 17:44 PM
#35
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2020, 11:08 AMVipper

Tommies cover bonus can be salvaged and it is not the cause of problem, it work for ostruppen for instance.

The rout of problem lies more to all the nobrainer upgrade tommies have available to them like bolster/medic/pyro weapon upgrades.

UKF would become allot more easier to balance if this buffes become side-grades instead of upgrade.

For instance:
Bolster becomes a individual upgrade taking up a weapons while tommies have cost reduce to 260
Pyro becomes an upgrade giving scope Enfields and taking up all slot while removing cover mechanism
Medic upgrade replace one entity with medic armed with a pistol
and so on


I basically made a similar post in the other thread :P

Bolster cost could be tweak around to be affordable but unlock all 3 upgrades (Medic, Pyro and bolster) and of all them adding a 5th guy with different role and performance.

Thinking a bit more about Pyro, it could be set to be 4 models but the on the move and out of cover performance should be better. Akin to having a tone down G43 gren squad.
20 Apr 2020, 17:54 PM
#36
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2020, 17:36 PMGrumpy


Are you trolling? How do you twist a comment about moving accuracy into something about cover and trenches?


Twisting? Sections were supposed to be bad out of cover because they are absolutely dominant in cover. When you make them average out of cover like you say as if it’s no issue the overall they become broken.

It’s not a hard concept.
20 Apr 2020, 18:14 PM
#37
avatar of maskedmonkey2

Posts: 262

Doom and gloom was foretold. That the tournament would be completely ruined by unstoppable marauding tommy blobs. This did not come to pass. You are wrong, give it a rest.
20 Apr 2020, 20:34 PM
#38
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Apr 2020, 11:08 AMVipper

Tommies cover bonus can be salvaged and it is not the cause of problem, it work for ostruppen for instance.

The rout of problem lies more to all the nobrainer upgrade tommies have available to them like bolster/medic/pyro weapon upgrades.

UKF would become allot more easier to balance if this buffes become side-grades instead of upgrade.

For instance:
Bolster becomes a individual upgrade taking up a weapons while tommies have cost reduce to 260
Pyro becomes an upgrade giving scope Enfields and taking up all slot while removing cover mechanism
Medic upgrade replace one entity with medic armed with a pistol
and so on

It would have been nice if there was something like 'recon' upgrade, giving them more accurate riles, lower range AT nades and slightly increased sight (with vet, perhaps in line what engineers have) + abilities from pyro. 4 men squad, upgrade takes 1 weapon slot.
Medic upgrade gives IS 5th men.
Remove bolster upgrade, but increase t1 price. Sappers always spawn as 5-men in this case. Remove sight bonus in cover.

20 Apr 2020, 21:58 PM
#39
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

IMO the tourney showed that the balance is top notch. I don't see almost any problems. Maybe just that some of the stuff Soviets have is a little bit too cheap muniwise. But the game is so close to being perfect that I'm just happy playing and being able to pull off so many different strats and finally be surprised by the enemy. I don;t see any problems with tommies, either.
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