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Should soviet Combat E ngineers be buffed?

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30 Mar 2020, 12:53 PM
#161
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15438 | Subs: 7

For the naysayers: which worker unit is the strongest right now?

That would be sturmpios....
30 Mar 2020, 12:56 PM
#162
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2793

For the naysayers: which worker unit is the strongest right now?


Spios in 1v1 fights.

In overall terms it’s

1) Heavy Sappers

2) Sturmpioneers

3) Pioneers

4) Royal Engineers

5) Combat Engineers

6) Rear Echelons (unless vet 5 with BAR)
30 Mar 2020, 13:00 PM
#163
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 186

Either of you care to provide replays demonstrating why these workers are stronger than CE?
30 Mar 2020, 13:02 PM
#164
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1095

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 12:49 PMKatitof

So you'll have more very weak, unvetted squads that can't vet up due to being decimated in mid/late game by vet2/3 squads with weapon upgrades.

Also, if its so good, please provide replays proving it.

You know allied unit is perfectly fine, when even snek doesn't find it "problematic".

They can fight exclusively within first 3 minutes of the game, the moment other infantries get to vet1 or weapon ugprade, its just roflstomp.

If you don't agree with it, provide a replay that shows otherwise.

For now, we have a replay proving you are completely wrong to the point where your further attempts to paint them as too strong only paints a picture of you being a noob beyond recovery.

Provide a replay or stop embarrassing yourself if you want anyone to take anything you say seriously in the future, otherwise you'll become 2nd thekingsown.

I hope you're not writing about yourself.

You keep repeating combat stats, which just doesn't make any sense.

There are a lot of replies from the last tournament when axis lose when their tanks get damaged and, especially OKW, can't repair it in time because they need to rebuild their engineer unit (300mp) and Soviets can buy 2 for 340 at the same time.

I'm not emabrassing myself. On the contrary, I feel that seasoned forum members embarass themselves by simply trying not to see the fact that 170 for an engineer squad is simply a bit of a balance problem. Instead, they try to prove that CEs have poor combat stats.
30 Mar 2020, 13:04 PM
#165
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2793

There are a lot of replies from the last tournament when axis lose when their tanks get damaged and, especially OKW, can't repair it in time because they need to rebuild their engineer unit (300mp) and Soviets can buy 2 for 340 at the same time..


Spios double as both an engineer and frontline combat squad. This is pretty basic.
30 Mar 2020, 13:08 PM
#166
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15438 | Subs: 7

Either of you care to provide replays demonstrating why these workers are stronger than CE?

Scaling and upgrades alone makes it quite obvious.
Utility and abilites further prove the point.
CEs are the cheapest, because they provide the least in terms of both.

They don't have actual combat scaling like sappers, sturmpios and RETs.
They don't have stock or doctrinal upgrades or vet increasing their durability significantly, like sappers, strumpios, pios and RETs.
They don't have direct combat support, like sturmpios nades, sappers AT nades, RETs suppression volley or pio sights.
They even can't place fortifications other then wire, unlike all of the above.
CEs are good where they are at their price and performance point.

And the sole fact that you need to have this pointed out to you means you're beyond recovery.
30 Mar 2020, 13:11 PM
#167
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 1091 | Subs: 1


A good way to use quarantine :)

But honestly imo the real thing is not their combat stats. What a lot of people don't see is the fact that you have access to 170mp unit that can support vehicles with mines, sweepers, repairs, and that makes the game imbalanced. Of course, slightly. But the last tournament proved exactly that. Soviets could repair their damaged IS2s and other stuff so much more easily by using double CEs plus other repair abilities. OKW, for example, was far behind with buying 300mp sturmpios trying to repair their panthers and no extra repair abilities.


OKW has base repairs that is approximately cost equivalent even to CEs (15 fuel for 70 MP) and has a base repair of 9, compared to 11,x of the CEs if I recall correctly. This functionality is the second pio squad that OKW usually does not buy and frees the actual Sturmpioneers for front line duty. These repairs are static, but also do not bleed and they are easy to micro, especially in team games since they do not take up any coordination or micro with your partner.
30 Mar 2020, 13:12 PM
#168
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 186


Just one replay where someone has more than two sturmpios on the field at once.





Spios double as both an engineer and frontline combat squad. This is pretty basic.


Why'd you build volksgren in our matchup if spios are better than engies in every way?
30 Mar 2020, 13:13 PM
#169
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2793

Why'd you build volksgren in our matchup if spios are better than engies in every way?


Because you have to be an idiot to think spamming an engineer unit is a good strat.

Idiot or noob, you’re probably the latter since you don’t play Soviets much to realize how bad a strat it is.
30 Mar 2020, 13:14 PM
#170
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 186



Because you have to be an idiot to think spamming an engineer unit is a good strat.


But Spios are better than engies right? Like you totally would have won if you did build them right?
30 Mar 2020, 13:16 PM
#171
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2793



But Spios are better than engies right? Like you totally would have won if you did build them right?


In a normal okw composition, 1 spio is all I need to get great value out of it. Spamming Spios is a bad strat since it locks you into very expensive 4man infantry that have no snares and no ranged damage.

Good compositions and combined arms will always beat moronic spam at equal skill level.
30 Mar 2020, 13:17 PM
#172
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15438 | Subs: 7



But Spios are better than engies right? Like you totally would have won if you did build them right?

And how often do you play against engi spam of other factions again?
30 Mar 2020, 13:18 PM
#173
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 186



In a normal okw composition, 1 spio is all I need to get great value out of it. Spamming Spios is a bad strat since it locks you into very expensive 4man infantry that have no snares and no ranged damage.

Good compositions and combined arms will always beat moronic spam at equal skill level.


But Spios are better? Right?
30 Mar 2020, 13:19 PM
#174
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 186

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 13:17 PMKatitof

And how often do you play against engi spam of other factions again?


You don't. The other factions have prohibitively expensive workers for anyone to spam them.
30 Mar 2020, 13:26 PM
#175
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8524 | Subs: 1

Pioneer are hardly a top engineer when is comes to cost efficiency simply because they can not vet past they second minute and that is why they where given repair bonus once upgrade with sweeper.

EFA engineer are inferior to WFA.
30 Mar 2020, 13:37 PM
#176
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 222

CE spam is a meme strat, basically gets insta countered by light vehicles and in the lategame, the only thing you have going is that you can spam mines evrywhere, but no way your gonna hold on vs lategame inftary or mgs.

If the 1vs1 offer is still valid i would take it :D
30 Mar 2020, 13:39 PM
#177
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 1091 | Subs: 1



But Spios are better? Right?

You've said that multiple times now without added value, now stop trolling and derailing this thread
30 Mar 2020, 14:03 PM
#178
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2793


You've said that multiple times now without added value, now stop trolling and derailing this thread


He's trying to get me to fight him with Spio spam which is obviously something I've claimed is good.

Right?....
30 Mar 2020, 14:43 PM
#179
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4087 | Subs: 1

Dedicated units are always cheaper than multirole units. Those that can do more have inflated price but those that do less do so generally more cost effeciently. CE are very cost effective repairmen because they don't do anything else to inflate their price. Whining that they are cheaper and thus more efficient repair lads is like whining that the elefant is a cheaper more effective AT unit compared to the isu and focusing only on the AT portion while ignoring the AI portion. I'm still in awe that this has gone this far... Do less= cost less...
30 Mar 2020, 15:12 PM
#180
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1095



Spios double as both an engineer and frontline combat squad. This is pretty basic.


It is. But the fact that lategame it is better to quickly replace repair unit for 170mp than for 200mp or 300mp is also pretty basic.
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