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11 Jan 2020, 20:12 PM
#61
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13176 | Subs: 1



But the HM-38 is even more likely to miss, no?
...

The HM-38 has a better AOE/Scatter area ratio again I suggest you test this in Cheat MOD and see for yourself.

HM-38 is very effective vs OKW trucks.
11 Jan 2020, 21:12 PM
#62
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2020, 20:12 PMVipper

The HM-38 has a better AOE/Scatter area ratio again I suggest you test this in Cheat MOD and see for yourself.

HM-38 is very effective vs OKW trucks.

Nobody is saying it's ineffective. We're saying the little mortar is more effective. Yes the AoE of the 120mm is wider but the increased ROF and accuracy of the little lad is simply superior for chopping dowm buildings. Shooting more often and dealing full damage more often > shooting less, hitting less but dealing more damage when it misses.
11 Jan 2020, 21:49 PM
#63
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13176 | Subs: 1


Nobody is saying it's ineffective. We're saying the little mortar is more effective. Yes the AoE of the 120mm is wider but the increased ROF and accuracy of the little lad is simply superior for chopping dowm buildings. Shooting more often and dealing full damage more often > shooting less, hitting less but dealing more damage when it misses.

Again from my experience the 120mm is better at taking out OKW trucks or other structures.

If any one has a different experience or made a test in cheat MOD would be more than happy to watch a replay.
11 Jan 2020, 22:44 PM
#64
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 783

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2020, 21:49 PMVipper

Again from my experience the 120mm is better at taking out OKW trucks or other structures.

If any one has a different experience or made a test in cheat MOD would be more than happy to watch a replay.



I think I can accept from a practical standpoint that the 120mm is better at taking out trucks since you can engage them a lot easier even when they are in safe positions, and at max range the superior AOE will compensate somewhat for scatter misses.


But the stats don't support it doing higher theoretical DPS. If both are plopped at range 50 to diminish scatter issues, the PM41 is simply going to have a shorter TTK then the HM38.
11 Jan 2020, 23:25 PM
#65
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13176 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2020, 22:44 PMSerrith



I think I can accept from a practical standpoint that the 120mm is better at taking out trucks since you can engage them a lot easier even when they are in safe positions, and at max range the superior AOE will compensate somewhat for scatter misses.


But the stats don't support it doing higher theoretical DPS. If both are plopped at range 50 to diminish scatter issues, the PM41 is simply going to have a shorter TTK then the HM38.

That might be true, but not realistic in in game scenario where in most cases one is firing into FOW and at ranges close to max where scatter is substantial not all shots land on top of the target.

I have used the 120mm to take out truck many time (and pack howitzers) but I can not remember a single time where I managed to take out a truck with a single 81mm mortar.

Again feel free to test it in game or in cheat MOD.
12 Jan 2020, 00:16 AM
#66
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 783

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2020, 23:25 PMVipper

That might be true, but not realistic in in game scenario where in most cases one is firing into FOW and at ranges close to max where scatter is substantial not all shots land on top of the target.


That was my point. While doing less theoretical damage, the 120mm practically is going to be easier to use when engaging trucks due to the longer range and aoe offsetting scatter issues-assuming of course you can afford it and have access to it.
12 Jan 2020, 00:22 AM
#67
avatar of Stark

Posts: 623 | Subs: 1



just use incendiary devices. A somewhat decent player wont let u kill it with pio flamer (251 flamer sets a house on fire very fast but its hard too), but if you use LeIg incendiary rounds (Feuersturm doc) or Mortar HT incendiary barrages you can counterpick a FHQ spammer with ease



did Balance team already fix the issue with Leig incendiary rounds that they couldn't put any building on fire? It used to be quite a known bug.

In 1v1 the most cancerous scene was on Lost Glider. Player just simple puts forward hq on a stone church. That building was almost indestructible and require way too much effort to kill it.
12 Jan 2020, 00:41 AM
#68
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 00:22 AMStark


did Balance team already fix the issue with Leig incendiary rounds that they couldn't put any building on fire? It used to be quite a known bug.

Most buildings have pretty high treshold for setting fire, because 251 was often setting building on fire before killing squad inside.

Single fire barrage isn't going to set anything on fire.
12 Jan 2020, 05:59 AM
#69
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3381 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2020, 20:12 PMVipper

HM-38 is very effective vs OKW trucks.


No one said it wasn't, I just prefer the stock mortar in general. No vet 1 for flare, cheaper, stock, and shoots more often

120 has its strengths too, I just prefer the strengths of the stock mortar
12 Jan 2020, 09:05 AM
#70
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13176 | Subs: 1



No one said it wasn't, I just prefer the stock mortar in general. No vet 1 for flare, cheaper, stock, and shoots more often

120 has its strengths too, I just prefer the strengths of the stock mortar

Read previous posts, it has been argued that the PM-41 is better at taking out OKW truck than the HM-38 something I doubt is true in a realistic in game scenario.
12 Jan 2020, 09:10 AM
#71
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 09:05 AMVipper

Read previous posts, it has been argued that the PM-41 is better at taking out OKW truck than the HM-38 something I doubt is true in a realistic in game scenario.

Actually, not a single person said its better, only 1 asked you why you think 120mm is better despite 81mm having much better stats for the job, but you just dodged the question.
12 Jan 2020, 09:18 AM
#72
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13176 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 09:10 AMKatitof

Actually, not a single person said its better, only 1 asked you why you think 120mm is better despite 81mm having much better stats for the job, but you just dodged the question.

Learn to read:


But it's impossible. Same damage per shot shooting less. Unless there is a bug it shouldn't be dealing more damage.


thedarkarmadilo clearly claimed that the PM-41 is better vs trucks.


And I did not dodged anything I have explain what stats make the HM-38 better vs OKW trucks I simply avoided engaging in pointless argument with you who simply like to troll.

Now PLS stop your silly quest of proving me wrong, I ma pretty sure that people of this forum are not really interested.
12 Jan 2020, 09:24 AM
#73
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

I'm not proving you wrong, you do the job just fine all by yourself.

You were simply asked to explain how unit with much lower accuracy and much lower DPS is better at hitting large, static target as you seem to be the only one with access to that diving knowledge against all common sense and math.
12 Jan 2020, 10:15 AM
#74
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13176 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 09:24 AMKatitof
I'm not proving you wrong, you do the job just fine all by yourself.

You were simply asked to explain how unit with much lower accuracy and much lower DPS is better at hitting large, static target as you seem to be the only one with access to that diving knowledge against all common sense and math.

OK you started your BS so allow me explain some basic things to you:
Explosive weapons do not use accuracy
Explosive weapons do not use the DPS formula
and the HM-38 has a better AOE/Scatter ratio...

You attempt to correct it me constantly (and fail miserably) even did so in post 71. I suggest that if want to correct someone you should start by correcting yourself:

your claim "Actually, not a single person said its better,..." is wrong as I have already demonstrated to you.
12 Jan 2020, 10:39 AM
#75
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 10:15 AMVipper

OK you started your BS so allow me explain some basic things to you:
Explosive weapons do not use accuracy
Explosive weapons do not use the DPS formula
and the HM-38 has a better AOE/Scatter ratio...

You attempt to correct it me constantly (and fail miserably) even did so in post 71. I suggest that if want to correct someone you should start by correcting yourself:

your claim "Actually, not a single person said its better,..." is wrong as I have already demonstrated to you.

That means its easier to hit infantry with 120mm then 81mm...

Target as big as a truck, its irrelevant, because you're going to land most of your shots and weapon that shoots same damage, but does it more accurately and more often should perform better.
12 Jan 2020, 14:34 PM
#76
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13176 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 10:39 AMKatitof

That means its easier to hit infantry with 120mm then 81mm...

Target as big as a truck, its irrelevant, because you're going to land most of your shots and weapon that shoots same damage, but does it more accurately and more often should perform better.

Another nice theory but nothing to support it.
(Once more using the term "accurately" does not mean much when it comes to explosive weapons since once a weapon misses it deliver different damage)

My free advice to you:
1) install the game
2) download cheat MOD
3) Enable health monitor
4) place a truck into the FOW into range 50-60
5) Barrage with PM-41
6) Count how many round actually do full 80 damage
7) Come back with the results

8) Stop wasting everyone's time in you little crusade "I will prove Vipper wrong" and invest your time in improving your own post so that people might start taking you seriously.

By the way did you just claim that PM-41 is better than HM-38 vs OKW trucks although according to you "Actually, not a single person said its better,..."
12 Jan 2020, 14:47 PM
#77
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 14:34 PMVipper

Another nice theory but nothing to support it.

Except.. you know... THE FUCKING STATS.
12 Jan 2020, 14:49 PM
#78
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 09:05 AMVipper

Read previous posts, it has been argued that the PM-41 is better at taking out OKW truck than the HM-38 something I doubt is true in a realistic in game scenario.

Put them both at 80 range and the 82mm will deal more damage because it hits more accurately and more often. The reason the 120 is better more often is the range more than anything. No one is saying the 120mm is bad. But in the ranges it can be used the higher dps of the Lil guy is simply better. I guess it comes down to preference. Now, if you will, this is extremely off topic and has gone on long enough.
12 Jan 2020, 15:16 PM
#79
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13176 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2020, 14:47 PMKatitof

Except.. you know... THE FUCKING STATS.

The stats say that HM-38 has better AOE/Scatter ratio and thus is more damage.
12 Jan 2020, 15:21 PM
#80
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13176 | Subs: 1


Put them both at 80 range and the 82mm will deal more damage because it hits more accurately and more often. The reason the 120 is better more often is the range more than anything.

You can test both mortar firing at 80 range into the FOW in cheat MOD and let come back with results.

And "hits accurately" does not mean much if does less per hit.


No one is saying the 120mm is bad. But in the ranges it can be used the higher dps of the Lil guy is simply better. I guess it comes down to preference. Now, if you will, this is extremely off topic and has gone on long enough.

Yes it has for far to long because certain people are obsessed with trying to correct me...
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