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russian armor

On the M4A3E8

1 Nov 2019, 12:13 PM
#41
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3217

1 75mm sherman + 1 jackson >>>>>>>>>> 2 Ez8


That depends on the target.
1 Nov 2019, 12:18 PM
#42
avatar of blancat

Posts: 788

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Nov 2019, 11:44 AMLago
Saying the Easy Eight has bad AI is just plain false.

It's got the exact same AoE distance as the standard Sherman shells, the Comet and the Cromwell.






The Comet and the Cromwell AOE is 2.5(scatter 6.4-12.8)

75mm sherman Armor piercing round AOE is 2(scatter 6.2-12.4)

76mm sherman Armor piercing round AOE is 2(scatter 5-10)

Ez8 AOE is 2(scatter 5.4-10.8)

1 Nov 2019, 12:26 PM
#43
avatar of blancat

Posts: 788

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Nov 2019, 12:13 PMLago


That depends on the target.



No, the former has the upper hand in every situation.

Jackson can penetrate everything and 75mm sherman can kill infantry easily

Ez8 can't do either well

The situation that 75mm Sherman+Jackson can handle is much more than 2 Ez8s can handle and much less risk
1 Nov 2019, 12:26 PM
#44
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3217

Ez8 AOE is 2

The Comet and the Cromwell AOE is 2.5(scatter 6.4-12.8)

75mm sherman Armor piercing round AOE is 2(scatter 6.2-12.4)

76mm sherman Armor piercing round AOE is 2(scatter 5-10)

Ez8 AOE is 2(scatter 5.4-10.8)



Huh. You're right.

Now I have to reevaluate the Cromwell and the M4C.
1 Nov 2019, 12:41 PM
#45
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1341 | Subs: 3





The Comet and the Cromwell AOE is 2.5(scatter 6.4-12.8)

75mm sherman Armor piercing round AOE is 2(scatter 6.2-12.4)

76mm sherman Armor piercing round AOE is 2(scatter 5-10)

Ez8 AOE is 2(scatter 5.4-10.8)



There's more to scatter than just max scatter distance.

Easy 8 = 5 angle scatter

75mm AP = 7,5 angle scatter

76mm = 7,5 angle scatter

Crom = 7,5 angle scatter

Comet = 5,25 angle scatter (since last patch)

Overall, the Easy 8's gun has average AI along the lines of the Cromwell and Ostheer P4. It isn't amazing like the OKW P4 or godtier like the HE Sherman. Considering its AT performance gives the OKW P4 a run for its money, I'd say that's fair.
1 Nov 2019, 12:52 PM
#46
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2368 | Subs: 5

Versus P4 head on (tank v tank)
Highlights:

[...]
[...]

[...]


It's saving grace would be that it is at least better than the regular M4A3 at fighting Panzer IVs, but it is still only barely capable of doing that.


Single tests are meaningless in a game where RNG is so dominant.

Multiple engagements test results (still not conclusive due to small sample size, but with dozens of engagements they are significantly more reliable than your result) show that the Easy 8 will, on average, beat the OKW Panzer IVJ quite comfortably. While costing the same.

At 20 range, the EZ8 won 22 out of 24 times, of which 9 times with 50-100% health left.

At 30 range, the EZ8 won 23 out of 27 times (1 result forfeit), of which 10 times with 50-100% health left.


It's definitely better at fighting both Panzer IVs than the M4A3 (no tests but you can imagine that with less health, less armor and less penetration, the M4A3 would do way worse).


EZ8 vs P4J at 20 range


EZ8 vs P4J at 30 range
1 Nov 2019, 13:16 PM
#47
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8285 | Subs: 1




and these where static test in a real game where tank move the Easy8 will probably perform even better.

1 Nov 2019, 13:36 PM
#48
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3217

No, the former has the upper hand in every situation.

Jackson can penetrate everything and 75mm sherman can kill infantry easily

Ez8 can't do either well

The situation that 75mm Sherman+Jackson can handle is much more than 2 Ez8s can handle and much less risk


No, it depends on the target.

Against infantry, it's two 2 radius shots vs 1 4 radius shot and half the MGs.

Against tanks, it depends on the armour value. The Sherman 75 is going to bounce against > 140 armour targets, and the E8 pair can take an extra two hits.

Saying the Jackson has outright superior AT to two E8s is crazier saying the Panther is outright superior to two StuGs.
1 Nov 2019, 13:41 PM
#49
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3959 | Subs: 1

Statistically the E8 is the perfect medium tank. It's got mobility, accuracy, pen, durability.... The problem lies in its commander being undesirable and its role being unnecessary due to the Jackson. Why pick a commander to get a tank that is a mobile slugger when you can pick another commander a just outrun/out gun everything with your TD? You put the E8 anywhere else and you will see it more, if you put it in any other faction, even doctrinal you would see it ALOT more because it's role isn't taken.
1 Nov 2019, 16:18 PM
#50
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2825 | Subs: 1

Statistically the E8 is the perfect medium tank. It's got mobility, accuracy, pen, durability.... The problem lies in its commander being undesirable and its role being unnecessary due to the Jackson. Why pick a commander to get a tank that is a mobile slugger when you can pick another commander a just outrun/out gun everything with your TD? You put the E8 anywhere else and you will see it more, if you put it in any other faction, even doctrinal you would see it ALOT more because it's role isn't taken.


Ez8 could use a vet1 blitz alike ability.
1 Nov 2019, 18:42 PM
#51
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 281

The E8 is in a difficult spot for several reasons.

The doctrine it's in isn't all that great. That means the only reason you'd ever go for the doctrine is if the E8 makes it worth it. At present, I think it's a good tank, but it's not good enough to make the doctrine worth it.

I think a slight increase in the E8's main gun AI capability should make it worthwhile without making it too good.

Part of the problem is that Heavy Cav is just utterly dominant because it gives you Rifleman defenses, Rangers and the god-like Pershing. With a package like that, why bother going for Infantry Company?
1 Nov 2019, 19:57 PM
#52
avatar of flyingpancake

Posts: 122 | Subs: 2

The EZ8 is a good tank. The problem is just that it is in USF instead of any other faction. Since the normal Sherman more then covers the AI role and the Jackson more then covers the AT role picking a vehicle that less reliable then either is a redundant choice. Would the EZ8 be in a soviet commander it would be amazing since it has no AT diver tank in it's line up.

Like some other people have suggested here remaking it into a high cost comet/panther equal might work.
It would also differentiate it from the 76 Sherman that seems to similar.
1 Nov 2019, 21:18 PM
#53
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450

My problem with it is it's to expensive and the rof is too slow to be used as a flanking tank, its pen and range is too low to fight panthers head on, and its ai is terrible.
Most axis armor have blitz to keep it from
chasing. I've never seen this tank being used, that is the stat that matters most.
Good players are not going to start using them because you think it is good.
1 Nov 2019, 21:51 PM
#54
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2278

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Nov 2019, 10:06 AMddd
It either needs decent anti inantry capabilities or be upscaled like ostwind: increase its price and buff stats closer to comet level. Right now its pointless.

Why dont we nerf jacksons and see it shine again?
It is not worthless nor pointless, it is overshadowed by Opness...
1 Nov 2019, 22:36 PM
#55
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3959 | Subs: 1


Why dont we nerf jacksons and see it shine again?
It is not worthless nor pointless, it is overshadowed by Opness...

Like the 76mm sherman. Great tank, but redundant. Why put a tank in range of return fore when you can out range the enemy and have better results.
1 Nov 2019, 23:34 PM
#56
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3605 | Subs: 1


Like the 76mm sherman. Great tank, but redundant. Why put a tank in range of return fore when you can out range the enemy and have better results.


Because instead of nerfing things that are OP, we buff everything to OP levels so that nothing is OP, but at the same time everything is OP. We need 60 range E8s with 300 penetration and switchable APFSDS shells. /s
2 Nov 2019, 00:25 AM
#57
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8285 | Subs: 1

My problem with it is it's to expensive and the rof is too slow to be used as a flanking tank, its pen and range is too low to fight panthers head on, and its ai is terrible.
Most axis armor have blitz to keep it from
chasing. I've never seen this tank being used, that is the stat that matters most.
Good players are not going to start using them because you think it is good.

It is not meant to fight Panthers head on 1vs1. Panthers are designed to beat main battle tanks and are more expensive with higher pop.
2 Nov 2019, 00:29 AM
#58
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8285 | Subs: 1


...
Overall, the Easy 8's gun has average AI along the lines of the Cromwell and Ostheer P4. It isn't amazing like the OKW P4 or godtier like the HE Sherman. Considering its AT performance gives the OKW P4 a run for its money, I'd say that's fair.

One also had to keep in mind the differences in faction design since Panzer J is the only AI vehicle out of T4 so it need to have good AI.
2 Nov 2019, 05:10 AM
#59
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 700


Why dont we nerf jacksons and see it shine again?
It is not worthless nor pointless, it is overshadowed by Opness...


You'd love that wouldn't you?

The E8 wouldn't "shine" just because you make other units trash. The E8 just sucks against infantry for a medium tank. Give it WP shells and let it alternate between those and it's existing shells. That would make it kind of like the regular M4A3 but with a more unique ability. The E8 is the only Sherman variant that doesn't have alternate ammo types for it's main gun unless you count the Firefly but that gets tulips.
2 Nov 2019, 08:35 AM
#60
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 819 | Subs: 5

Ez8 isn't supposed to be very good vs inf. It's mainly a brawler AT tank with 200+ armor and 800 health and a gun that always pen all ost mediums basically 100%. A step up from the T34/85 in every way except inf killing power.


720 health. Was nerfed down from 800.

T34/85 is 800 health.

So, not in every way?
Also, T34/85 has better AI than Ez8.
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