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6 changes to improve Wehrmacht commanders thematically

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19 Nov 2019, 13:48 PM
#161
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3143 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Nov 2019, 09:34 AMVipper

That is incorrect for instance Ernst Barkmann was using a Panther.

"Barkmann Corner"


Yeah I actually googled for Panther Ace after I made that comment and found out about Barkmann but the other half of my statement still stands, most Panzer Aces were in Tigers.

Kurt Knispel, Martin Schroif (Relic even gave almost the same name to the driver of the Tiger Ace), Otto Carius, Michael Wittmann, Hans Bolter and others are just some examples of Tiger Aces.
19 Nov 2019, 14:01 PM
#162
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Yeah I actually googled for Panther Ace after I made that comment and found out about Barkmann but the other half of my statement still stands, most Panzer Aces were in Tigers.

Kurt Knispel, Martin Schroif (Relic even gave almost the same name to the driver of the Tiger Ace), Otto Carius, Michael Wittmann, Hans Bolter and others are just some examples of Tiger Aces.

Well rookies usually did not get Tigers, on the other hand not all units had Tigers to begin with :).

And most of these Panzer Aces did not start with Tiger Michael Wittmann started with Stug -E if I remember correctly so many of them may have used a Panther at some point.
19 Nov 2019, 15:15 PM
#163
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 857 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Nov 2019, 14:01 PMVipper

And most of these Panzer Aces did not start with Tiger. Michael Wittmann started with Stug -E if I remember correctly so many of them may have used a Panther at some point.


Well spoken. And Barkmann had 82 confirmed tank kills and was under the top ten-twenty german tank commanders, that should be enough to be considered as an "Ace".

That being said i dont think that history should be the main reason to decide if a a PantherAce should be designed as a new unit. As we have seen history could back it up but even if not, gameplay should always come first.

And at least imo the PantherAce would be an interesting option. It could be designed as a pure TD with mark target and better reload and accuracy values than the standard panther (and of course mp and fuel costs). I think such a unit would fit in nicely in some wehrmacht or OKW commanders.

Edit: An "Ace" for the Soviets would also be interisting.
19 Nov 2019, 15:49 PM
#164
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3143 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Nov 2019, 14:01 PMVipper

Well rookies usually did not get Tigers, on the other hand not all units had Tigers to begin with :).

And most of these Panzer Aces did not start with Tiger Michael Wittmann started with Stug -E if I remember correctly so many of them may have used a Panther at some point.


Nobody started in a Tiger lol.

Otto Carius was in a 38(t), Wittmann like you said in a StuG-E, von Rosen, a commander of a platoon and later company of the 503rd Heavy Tank Battalion was in a Panzer IV with a short barrel, Knispel served as a gunner in most imaginable vehicles with a gun and so forth.

But there is a reason why they chose the best for the Heavy Tank Battalions, especially for the Waffen SS.

Also Panther was a 1943 vehicle, Tiger was introduced in later 1942 so a lot of those people using a Tiger did not switch over to Panthers. They were held in the Heavy Tank Battalions until either death or the end of the war.
19 Nov 2019, 16:05 PM
#165
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


...
Also Panther was a 1943 vehicle, Tiger was introduced in later 1942 so a lot of those people using a Tiger did not switch over to Panthers. They were held in the Heavy Tank Battalions until either death or the end of the war.

I have not checked the information of who liked what vehicle but generally "Aces" where allowed to use their tool preference or the tools available to their assigned unit.

For instance Hans-Ulrich Rudel the Stuka ace was allowed to fly the Stuka even when it become obsolete and Erich Hartmann was flaying a me-109 even when superior planes where available.

Anyway enough history :).

19 Nov 2019, 16:08 PM
#166
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3143 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Nov 2019, 16:05 PMVipper

I have not checked the information of who liked what vehicle but generally "Aces" where allowed to use their tool preference or the tools available to their assigned unit.

For instance Hans-Ulrich Rudel the Stuka ace was allowed to fly the Stuka even when it become obsolete and Erich Hartmann was flaying a me-109 even when superior planes where available.

Anyway enough history :).



I am not sure how the Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine did it but generally people that were allocated and allowed to in Heavy Tank Battalions generally stayed there.
21 Nov 2019, 11:11 AM
#167
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 568 | Subs: 1

IMHO if you wanted to make mobile defense more appealing

0-Cp counter attack tactics= Now allows light vehicles to cap
0-Cp Puma= remains the same with a 10 fuel cost decrease. or giving it a sidetech that allows for earlier timing (like 9 min)

2-Cp Panzer tactican= remains the same

3-Cp ostruppen reserves= Two squads of ostruppen infantry but instead of rng weapons one squad comes with ptrs/bazookas and the other thompsons/ppshs (Depends on which theme you're going with really)

7-Cp cmd tank remains the same.
21 Nov 2019, 11:26 AM
#168
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

IMHO if you wanted to make mobile defense more appealing

0-Cp counter attack tactics= Now allows light vehicles to cap
0-Cp Puma= remains the same with a 10 fuel cost decrease. or giving it a sidetech that allows for earlier timing (like 9 min)

2-Cp Panzer tactican= remains the same

3-Cp ostruppen reserves= Two squads of ostruppen infantry but instead of rng weapons one squad comes with ptrs/bazookas and the other thompsons/ppshs (Depends on which theme you're going with really)

7-Cp cmd tank remains the same.

C.PZIV and Puma should not be in the same commander it is as simply as that.

Both units have been nerfed to oblivion because of this commander the same way stuka has been nerfed because it exist in the same commander at Elephant. Some combinations of abilities should simply not be available.
21 Nov 2019, 18:44 PM
#169
avatar of blancat

Posts: 810

IMHO if you wanted to make mobile defense more appealing

0-Cp counter attack tactics= Now allows light vehicles to cap
0-Cp Puma= remains the same with a 10 fuel cost decrease. or giving it a sidetech that allows for earlier timing (like 9 min)

2-Cp Panzer tactican= remains the same

3-Cp ostruppen reserves= Two squads of ostruppen infantry but instead of rng weapons one squad comes with ptrs/bazookas and the other thompsons/ppshs (Depends on which theme you're going with really)

7-Cp cmd tank remains the same.


why ostruppen have thompson and bazooka?

It's a strange design
21 Nov 2019, 20:39 PM
#170
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17892 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2019, 18:44 PMblancat


why ostruppen have thompson and bazooka?

It's a strange design


Haven't you heard of allies lend lease to nazi germany allies program?
21 Nov 2019, 21:14 PM
#171
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 857 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2019, 20:39 PMKatitof


Haven't you heard of allies lend lease to nazi germany allies program?


:)

Osttruppen should get PPSH and AT rifles if we want to equip them differently. Wehrmacht captured thousands of these weapons and gave them very often to allied divisions.
21 Nov 2019, 23:34 PM
#172
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17892 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2019, 21:14 PMSmartie


:)

Osttruppen should get PPSH and AT rifles if we want to equip them differently. Wehrmacht captured thousands of these weapons and gave them very often to allied divisions.


All ww2 armies captured crapload of enemy equipment and used it in combat.
Its bad argument to give everything to everyone.
22 Nov 2019, 01:03 AM
#173
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 784

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2019, 23:34 PMKatitof


All ww2 armies captured crapload of enemy equipment and used it in combat.
Its bad argument to give everything to everyone.






Soviet Panzer IVs when?

22 Nov 2019, 13:11 PM
#174
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 568 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2019, 18:44 PMblancat


why ostruppen have thompson and bazooka?

It's a strange design


Western front reserves with captured enemy weapons, adds flavor and gives some interesting options and makes it actually mechanically viable, as it stands the ostruppen reserves are useless fuckwits whos only worth is crewing team weapons but even then they're bad at that because you pay 425 MP.
22 Nov 2019, 14:03 PM
#175
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

IMHO if you wanted to make mobile defense more appealing

0-Cp counter attack tactics= Now allows light vehicles to cap
0-Cp Puma= remains the same with a 10 fuel cost decrease. or giving it a sidetech that allows for earlier timing (like 9 min)
0-Cp Osttruppen
1-Cp Luftwaffe weapons crate drop = Drops captured western front equipment
7-Cp cmd tank remains the same.


What about now? Seems a bit more functional and the balance team wants to get rid of panzer tactician in this doctrine anyway.
22 Nov 2019, 14:08 PM
#176
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 568 | Subs: 1



What about now? Seems a bit more functional and the balance team wants to get rid of panzer tactician in this doctrine anyway.


The doctrine doesnt synergize with normal ostruppen and 1cp weapon drops could easily cause the same broken situation with the SVT drops imho.

What my changes do is add flavor, giving an offensive capability and defensive capability and unique role with the current ostruppen. which is the desriable outcome because you'd have something that fills a good niche and works as an emergency button when you're behind but not broken but because they're ostruppen.
22 Nov 2019, 14:23 PM
#177
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

and the balance team wants to get rid of panzer tactician in this doctrine anyway.


For the record, I always speak only for myself when I comment in threads, unless I specifically state otherwise. I personally would like to remove Panzer Tactician from MobiDef, as I suggested in my previous posts here, to decrease the effectiveness of light vehicle onslaught, so the Puma can be changed to come at a viable timing again.
22 Nov 2019, 15:26 PM
#178
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3



The doctrine doesnt synergize with normal ostruppen and 1cp weapon drops could easily cause the same broken situation with the SVT drops imho.

What my changes do is add flavor, giving an offensive capability and defensive capability and unique role with the current ostruppen. which is the desriable outcome because you'd have something that fills a good niche and works as an emergency button when you're behind but not broken but because they're ostruppen.


For the record I like your changes, I just think putting western equipment and Osttruppen seperately is better. You could have a 0 CP Western equipment passive ability which allows weapon upgrades for example.




For the record, I always speak only for myself when I comment in threads, unless I specifically state otherwise. I personally would like to remove Panzer Tactician from MobiDef, as I suggested in my previous posts here, to decrease the effectiveness of light vehicle onslaught, so the Puma can be changed to come at a viable timing again.


Ah okay, it’s kinda hard to know when it’s a personal opinion and when a consensus considering you’re in the balance team.
22 Nov 2019, 15:32 PM
#179
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3



Western front reserves with captured enemy weapons, adds flavor and gives some interesting options and makes it actually mechanically viable, as it stands the ostruppen reserves are useless fuckwits whos only worth is crewing team weapons but even then they're bad at that because you pay 425 MP.


Westtruppen? :snfAmi:
22 Nov 2019, 16:13 PM
#180
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3143 | Subs: 2







Soviet Panzer IVs when?



Sorry to burst your bubble but this is a discussion about the Wehrmacht/Ostheer, not the Soviets.

On a related note however, this would be a pretty interesting thing to add for the Ost:



T-34/76 with Armored Skirts taken from the All Units Mod.

Only the Germans can call it in which is pretty nice and unique.

Just add a skin with the Balkenkreuz to it and it will be perfect.

Also just a note here, Germans only modified captured T-34s because they didn't really like them in their production state. They added stuff like Panzer III and IV Commander cupolas and armored skirts to them.

However they didn't modify captured Shermans because they thought they were already good tanks.
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