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Re-balance Allied TDs penetration values

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26 Oct 2019, 16:50 PM
#101
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13771 | Subs: 7



Wrecking a PZ4 with a Jackson with max range shots on the move isn’t balance, it’s garbage. At max range TDs/AT guns should’t have as much accuracy vs mediums, thus it would require you to either get a lot of shots in quickly, vet up your units or get closer, which would get rid of the current stagnant TD meta.


What are you talking about?
If target moves or not doesn't impact accuracy, unless you have activated blitz or combat blitz, which decrease temporarily target size.

If Jackson MOVES, agains P4 at 60 range it has whooping 38% to hit.
Moving SU-85 has 44% to hit.
Moving FF has 48%.

I wouldn't call it exceptionally high.
26 Oct 2019, 16:58 PM
#102
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 859

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Oct 2019, 16:50 PMKatitof


What are you talking about?
If target moves or not doesn't impact accuracy, unless you have activated blitz or combat blitz, which decrease temporarily target size.

If Jackson MOVES, agains P4 at 60 range it has whooping 38% to hit.
Moving SU-85 has 44% to hit.
Moving FF has 48%.

I wouldn't call it exceptionally high.


Impossible, the M36 has 0.75 moving accuracy compared to the other two since it’s a USF vehicle. It also has a turret, meaning it can chase at full speed instead of having to rotate to get a shot off.
26 Oct 2019, 17:00 PM
#103
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Oct 2019, 16:50 PMKatitof

If Jackson MOVES, agains P4 at 60 range it has whooping 38% to hit.


Jackson has 0.035*22*0,75 = 58% chance to hit P4 max range while moving.
26 Oct 2019, 17:04 PM
#104
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13771 | Subs: 7



Impossible, the M36 has 0.75 moving accuracy compared to the other two since it’s a USF vehicle. It also has a turret, meaning it can chase at full speed instead of having to rotate to get a shot off.

Ah, didn't took that into account.
New chance inc in a mom

e: Or what derby said
26 Oct 2019, 17:10 PM
#105
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 798



Jackson has 0.035*22*0,75 = 58% chance to hit P4 max range while moving.


you still have to account bounces AND like I said not everywhere you have LoS to shoot at 60 range.
26 Oct 2019, 17:29 PM
#106
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 143


Lol this forum hasnt changed a bit in the last month.
26 Oct 2019, 18:21 PM
#107
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3968



True. I'm aware. I don't see any better solution. Imo it's not bad. It would be clear and very different vehicle category. Target size seems okish but would be too rng dependent.
increase reload add 40 deflection damage ? so against heavy u always deal damage but it's a irrelevant vs low armor target
26 Oct 2019, 18:51 PM
#108
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13771 | Subs: 7

increase reload add 40 deflection damage ? so against heavy u always deal damage but it's a irrelevant vs low armor target

We do the same for panther I assume?
You know, so StuG and JP4 can also find its place?
26 Oct 2019, 19:30 PM
#109
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1676



True. I'm aware. I don't see any better solution. Imo it's not bad. It would be clear and very different vehicle category. Target size seems okish but would be too rng dependent.

There is a sligtly simple solution.

Increase reload time for TDs, increase damage dealt for TDs and reduce target size for mediums.

Mediums tend to fight close to each other so they wont get as affected as much as TDs.

A good spot would be one with a medium tank receiving two hits by TDs and have some sliver of HP left. Simply because 2 TD in the current meta is not too hard to get and its even easier on Teamgames.
26 Oct 2019, 19:36 PM
#110
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 859


There is a sligtly simple solution.

Increase reload time for TDs, increase damage dealt for TDs and reduce target size for mediums.

Mediums tend to fight close to each other so they wont get as affected as much as TDs.

A good spot would be one with a medium tank receiving two hits by TDs and have some sliver of HP left. Simply because 2 TD in the current meta is not too hard to get and its even easier on Teamgames.


That would work, while another feature would be to have a good amount of deflection damage vs targets where you don’t have 100% pen, so for instance 80% chance to pen and if it doesn’t pen you then have 50% chance for deflection damage.

I disagree on reload time though, TDs had very fast reload times historically. Target size decrease for mediums and deflection damage on heavies would be enough.
26 Oct 2019, 20:01 PM
#111
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 868

Oh look another pls nerf alies TDs thread its seriosly getting boring. Game is really in a good state right now but if u guys really wonna destroy it again then pls go on
26 Oct 2019, 20:41 PM
#112
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3968

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Oct 2019, 18:51 PMKatitof

We do the same for panther I assume?
You know, so StuG and JP4 can also find its place?
ok, it make sense , i mean it's 40 damage when u don't pen which matters for heavy tanks as they generally don't have multiple of 160 hp (1 reason why FF is very good vs heavy tanks but OK vs medium, as anything with more than 640 hp will take 1 less shot)
26 Oct 2019, 20:41 PM
#113
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 663

Nobody wants to destroy anything. There is a problem that should be addressed. The game is really well balanced. We're polishing details.
26 Oct 2019, 20:42 PM
#114
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 663


There is a sligtly simple solution.

Increase reload time for TDs, increase damage dealt for TDs and reduce target size for mediums.

Mediums tend to fight close to each other so they wont get as affected as much as TDs.

A good spot would be one with a medium tank receiving two hits by TDs and have some sliver of HP left. Simply because 2 TD in the current meta is not too hard to get and its even easier on Teamgames.

If you guys think it will work. Let's do it.
26 Oct 2019, 20:50 PM
#115
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1077

My idea to change allied TDs were to make them less effective against mediums by nerfing the accuracy of the TDs at max range so that they miss around 30% of their shots vs a medium at max range. This is basically giving axis meds a smaller target size against allied TDs without actually reducing the size of axis meds which would affect other allied at units. Maybe to differentiate more clearly, increase the target size of all heavies so there is a greater difference between meds and heavies. So now to counter allied TDs axis can spam mediums and instead of allies just brainlessly spamming TDs in team games as the one-size-fits-all solution to counter all armor, they need to actually check their enemy's armor composition: ie. medium spam requires your own mediums + at guns, heavies will require TDs.
26 Oct 2019, 20:58 PM
#116
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2330 | Subs: 1



Wrecking a PZ4 with a Jackson with max range shots on the move isn’t balance, it’s garbage. At max range TDs/AT guns should’t have as much accuracy vs mediums, thus it would require you to either get a lot of shots in quickly, vet up your units or get closer, which would get rid of the current stagnant TD meta.


Getting shots in at max range requires a lot of spotting and direct LOS, this is hard to achieve, especially if you want to chase the enemy medium tank. If the allied player can pull this off, he deserves to do the damage. It's only easy to get long range hits in if the enemy is using their medium tanks as frontal assault break through tanks and their understanding of flanking is 'rush at enemy and try to blitz behind them'.

Honestly I think TDs are fine as they are. Only the JP4 feels too weak with penetration compared to other TDs. I would like to see it get a bit more punch in return for a nerf to the bullshit phase shields it gets that make the tank literally invulnerable if you hold fire.
26 Oct 2019, 21:46 PM
#117
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 798

Oh look another pls nerf alies TDs thread its seriosly getting boring. Game is really in a good state right now but if u guys really wonna destroy it again then pls go on


this, why fix what it isn't broken? (and this game has a LOT of broken stuff)
26 Oct 2019, 22:19 PM
#118
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 798


Honestly I think TDs are fine as they are. Only the JP4 feels too weak with penetration compared to other TDs. I would like to see it get a bit more punch in return for a nerf to the bullshit phase shields it gets that make the tank literally invulnerable if you hold fire.


JP4 does it job very well though, if you want to punch heavier stuff just get a panther or go elite armor and use HEAT.
26 Oct 2019, 22:31 PM
#119
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 170

My idea to change allied TDs were to make them less effective against mediums by nerfing the accuracy of the TDs at max range so that they miss around 30% of their shots vs a medium at max range. This is basically giving axis meds a smaller target size against allied TDs without actually reducing the size of axis meds which would affect other allied at units. Maybe to differentiate more clearly, increase the target size of all heavies so there is a greater difference between meds and heavies. So now to counter allied TDs axis can spam mediums and instead of allies just brainlessly spamming TDs in team games as the one-size-fits-all solution to counter all armor, they need to actually check their enemy's armor composition: ie. medium spam requires your own mediums + at guns, heavies will require TDs.

And how so you expect soviets to counter axis armor spam.? With fricking t34s? This even sounds ridiculous as a t34 can't even pen a pz4 reliably let alone a panther. Has no smoke or blitz ability.

If you want this then axis armor is in need of a nerf so mediums stand a chance.
26 Oct 2019, 22:34 PM
#120
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 170



Getting shots in at max range requires a lot of spotting and direct LOS, this is hard to achieve, especially if you want to chase the enemy medium tank. If the allied player can pull this off, he deserves to do the damage. It's only easy to get long range hits in if the enemy is using their medium tanks as frontal assault break through tanks and their understanding of flanking is 'rush at enemy and try to blitz behind them'.

Honestly I think TDs are fine as they are. Only the JP4 feels too weak with penetration compared to other TDs. I would like to see it get a bit more punch in return for a nerf to the bullshit phase shields it gets that make the tank literally invulnerable if you hold fire.

Jdpz4 has a camouflage ability. Since when does any allies tank have a camouflage ability? Apart from tank hunters.

In my opinion it is fine as it is. We must also keep in mind the other tanks in axis roster.
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