It is sad to lose this iconic vet. But at this stage, practicality outweighs traditional likings.
Disadvantage to waste a vet slot on something no longer useful. Looks good on paper but no in use.
I suggest +80hp and +0.15 moving accuracy as replacement
Think about it, seems very more practical considerations.
Should Wehr armor vet bonus be replaced?
24 Oct 2019, 11:01 AM
#1
Posts: 1794
24 Oct 2019, 11:19 AM
#2
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
The armor bonus helps against snares, bazookas, PIATs, medium TDs like the M10 and SU-76 and all medium tanks and premium medium tanks. There's no reason to replace it just because it doesn't really help against 3 units (Firefly, SU-85, Jackson).
Also, +80hp on the Panther, giving it 7 shots of durability, would be quite ridiculous.
Also, +80hp on the Panther, giving it 7 shots of durability, would be quite ridiculous.
24 Oct 2019, 11:24 AM
#3
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Move the bonus to vet 3, make it stronger and slightly raise vet requirements.
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24 Oct 2019, 11:31 AM
#4
Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8
Lets replace axis inf rec acc bonuses with build speed or something, because it doesn't help at all against snipers too.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
24 Oct 2019, 13:17 PM
#5
Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1
Replacing armor vet bonus with something else would be a buff to allied armor in most cases
With the buffs to allied TDs and the penetration bonuses they get (that are higher than armor vet bonuses) and the nerf to the armor bases stat these bonuses have almost lost their meaning.
Panther gets 10% armor bonus at vet 2 and KV-1 with same frontal armor bonus and higher rear can get 7% from bulletins.
With the current performance of allied TDs at range 60 axis units would be better of losing their armor advantage over allied armor and becoming cheaper.
With the buffs to allied TDs and the penetration bonuses they get (that are higher than armor vet bonuses) and the nerf to the armor bases stat these bonuses have almost lost their meaning.
Panther gets 10% armor bonus at vet 2 and KV-1 with same frontal armor bonus and higher rear can get 7% from bulletins.
With the current performance of allied TDs at range 60 axis units would be better of losing their armor advantage over allied armor and becoming cheaper.
24 Oct 2019, 13:28 PM
#6
Posts: 5279
The armour still helps vs everything that isn't a TD(who I do feel are overperforming)
A p4 for example gains the ability to bounce AT guns which it didn't have previously. They also help against mediums....
All we need is a way to make TDs less obvious as a choice and mediums more attractive and the armour bonus will feel as valuable as it truly is.
A p4 for example gains the ability to bounce AT guns which it didn't have previously. They also help against mediums....
All we need is a way to make TDs less obvious as a choice and mediums more attractive and the armour bonus will feel as valuable as it truly is.
#stalinwept
24 Oct 2019, 13:28 PM
#7
Posts: 5279
Also biased poll much?
#stalinwept
24 Oct 2019, 13:30 PM
#8
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
The armour still helps vs everything that isn't a TD(who I do feel are overperforming)
A p4 for example gains the ability to bounce AT guns which it didn't have previously. They also help against mediums....
All we need is a way to make TDs less obvious as a choice and mediums more attractive and the armour bonus will feel as valuable as it truly is.
Replace TDs with Jackson and your post is perfect.
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24 Oct 2019, 13:31 PM
#9
Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8
Replacing armor vet bonus with something else would be a buff to allied armor in most cases
With the buffs to allied TDs and the penetration bonuses they get (that are higher than armor vet bonuses) and the nerf to the armor bases stat these bonuses have almost lost their meaning.
Panther gets 10% armor bonus at vet 2 and KV-1 with same frontal armor bonus and higher rear can get 7% from bulletins.
With the current performance of allied TDs at range 60 axis units would be better of losing their armor advantage over allied armor and becoming cheaper.
You seem to missed it, so let me help you:
The armor bonus helps against snares, bazookas, PIATs, medium TDs like the M10 and SU-76 and all medium tanks and premium medium tanks. There's no reason to replace it just because it doesn't really help against 3 units (Firefly, SU-85, Jackson).
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
24 Oct 2019, 13:35 PM
#10
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Replacing armor vet bonus with something else would be a buff to allied armor in most cases
With the buffs to allied TDs and the penetration bonuses they get (that are higher than armor vet bonuses) and the nerf to the armor bases stat these bonuses have almost lost their meaning.
Panther gets 10% armor bonus at vet 2 and KV-1 with same frontal armor bonus and higher rear can get 7% from bulletins.
With the current performance of allied TDs at range 60 axis units would be better of losing their armor advantage over allied armor and becoming cheaper.
Or we can just nerf the Jackson and everyone is happy.
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24 Oct 2019, 13:42 PM
#11
Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1
The armor bonus helps against snares, bazookas, PIATs, medium TDs like the M10 and SU-76 and all medium tanks and premium medium tanks. There's no reason to replace it just because it doesn't really help against 3 units (Firefly, SU-85, Jackson).
Also, +80hp on the Panther, giving it 7 shots of durability, would be quite ridiculous.
The problem is there is little reason to built anything else than FF/SU-85/M36 since they can counter all vehicles from kubel to KT (accept JT Ele) and thus the armor bonus is rather pointless.
24 Oct 2019, 13:45 PM
#12
Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1
Or we can just nerf the Jackson and everyone is happy.
Imo one should start with delaying Super heavies, delaying T4 for Ostheer and nerf allied performance especially at max ranges.
24 Oct 2019, 13:52 PM
#13
Posts: 1794
Imo one should start with delaying Super heavies, delaying T4 for Ostheer and nerf allied performance especially at max ranges.
Basically this. I seen the games, it is all about going to heavies call now. Afterwards, you supplement with FF/SU85/JS. There is little else to build a medium especially Allies. Unless you are leading and feeling risky to go with a shock one.
In fact this build order extends to 4v4 team games. No reason to build T3 tanks. Since your infantry and AT guns are enough. I mean for Wehr, would you risk fuel to make P4, which does not a great job against infantry and AT? When you know it is pointless once 60TD hits.
Hence the armor vet is pointless imo. Takes up space, and helps little. The synergy is not working with this meta.
Btw i didnt know armor helps against snare. I thought and experience snaring as long the tank health is down some percentage.
24 Oct 2019, 13:58 PM
#14
Posts: 1794
The armor bonus helps against snares, bazookas, PIATs, medium TDs like the M10 and SU-76 and all medium tanks and premium medium tanks. There's no reason to replace it just because it doesn't really help against 3 units (Firefly, SU-85, Jackson).
Also, +80hp on the Panther, giving it 7 shots of durability, would be quite ridiculous.
I think is 6.5, a flanking AEC can kill it off.
Maybe with no armor vet, Allies are more comforted to build med tanks, which means more variety.
24 Oct 2019, 14:02 PM
#15
Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8
I think is 6.5, a flanking AEC can kill it off.
Maybe with no armor vet, Allies are more comforted to build med tanks, which means more variety.
Flanking aec would need 8 shots, if you can't land 3 shots on it with panther, I suggest you lower AI difficulty and try again, because someone who uses this kind of argument can't even be playing in ranked team games outside of comp stomps.
Also, you can't exactly shoot half a shot you know? So that's 7.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
24 Oct 2019, 14:02 PM
#16
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Imo one should start with delaying Super heavies, delaying T4 for Ostheer and nerf allied performance especially at max ranges.
I’m all for it. I was originally against tying to tech and then fewer CP on top of that.
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24 Oct 2019, 14:24 PM
#17
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I think is 6.5, a flanking AEC can kill it off
… so 7 shots?
24 Oct 2019, 14:24 PM
#18
Posts: 203
Axis armor is "useless" because it's less effective agains units which are direct counters to it? I guess we should forget about the fact it works against everything else?
You can't spell "Power Creep" without REEEEE.
24 Oct 2019, 14:28 PM
#19
Posts: 783
Just throwing this out there-
How about make skirts a researchable upgrade(150mp 15fuel)requiring battlephase 3 or shwerer panzer authorization and then a nominal upgrade fee for each tank(45 or 50 muni), mutually exclusive with spotting scopes and panzer commander.
Replace existing armor vet with something else.
Yeah, the armor is worthless against TDs, so having it as an upgrade like this would give axis players a choice to pick it up or not depending on the enemy composition.
How about make skirts a researchable upgrade(150mp 15fuel)requiring battlephase 3 or shwerer panzer authorization and then a nominal upgrade fee for each tank(45 or 50 muni), mutually exclusive with spotting scopes and panzer commander.
Replace existing armor vet with something else.
Yeah, the armor is worthless against TDs, so having it as an upgrade like this would give axis players a choice to pick it up or not depending on the enemy composition.
24 Oct 2019, 14:38 PM
#20
Posts: 1794
… so 7 shots?
I was meaning a cheap tank can help to kill it. It is not really too much +hp to shake the grounds, but enough to offset the useless removed armor vet.
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