The nerf on Volks won't change the dynamic. If anything changes it, are the PPSH and 7th man on T3.
In the OKW thread I said that I want to see if the Volks nerfs are enough or not, because it seems not enough for Riflemen. But then again I also thought that the JLI nerfs back in the day were completely missing the main point and now JLI are in a pretty good spot. So I give the Balance Team the benefit of the doubt and want to see how these changes fair.
Here I meant Cons could now be alright taken together the slight Volks nerf and their buffs. Should have pointed more towards the buff though to avoid misinterpretation. |
the cons changes are welcome but again does not fix their early problem and penals being so much better
partisan changes still fail to address the enormous reinforce cost, allow cons to merge in to them
still no changes to penal, so we will still see penal spam, they just made it easier to back tech for at guns if needed
Let's see how Cons fair now with Volks slightly nerfed. Cons are okay against Grenadiere, but Volks broke the balance. Could be enough actually.
Partisans now cost 26 to reinforce, so it's far from "enormous". You now pay as much as for normal mainline infantry. Can't say much about their performance though, I have rarely used them.
And Penals can't be spammed in the sense of bringing up extreme early game pressure. They cost 300 MP a piece, so the time to field 4 of them is quite long. |
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Good slight buffs to Conscripts and Partisans. Glad so see some Commanders potentially getting back into the meta.
I know that Balance Team does not like it, but the Maxim should get a slight straight up suppression buff. Now the ability that no one ever uses has been buffed to more suppression, and now the AoE suppression gets better. But this does not help too much if it's hard to suppress even the first squad.
Maxim does not need nowhere near MG42 suppression, but a buff is needed so that one squad can't attack it frontally anymore. |
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Not too sure if the Volksgrenadier changes are enough to fix them. In total, OKW loses about 60 MP (20 starting plus 4x10 for 4 Volk squads).
I mean, this will surely delay OKW a bit, but on the other hands it's only worth about 15-20 seconds of MP income, while Sturmpioniere still put on extreme pressure and have been buffed to scale a bit better into the early-mid game.
I'd say let's see if OKW early game gets less oppressive, since starting resource management is very tricky, but I do have the sentiment that OKW would need to lose a little bit more than that. Time will tell.
Really like the changes to Sturmoffizier, Fallschirmjäger and the Spec Ops commander! |
Idea for relief infantry rework:
Instead of forcing you to get your units killed, make it so they can recuperate from any losses that occur.
Releases 2 4-man relief squads that can merge but cannot reinforce or capture points. Also have VERY crap DPS.
have the relief infantry squads retreat off the map at the abilitie’s end
This would add more skill to the ability, instead of throwing your units foreward to die you have to position the relief squads correctly& time your Assault well
While the rework for merge-units sounds interesting, I don't think that your idea will translate well into the game.
Apart from that: This thread is patchnote discussion, if you want to suggest and discuss a different change, please open a new thread or reuse a recent one. Otherwise it's getting confusing in here  |
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Nice to see that Balance Team included my Target Weak Point suggestion, so now I contributed a tiny bit to the game #feelsgoodman
Apart from that, many good changes. Not so sure about some of the others like the 251 though, but time will tell and I appreciate the effort to make the unit more interesting |
sturm don't have sand bag cause they are over burned with roles, i tried to address this with a rework hopefully the mod team does something similar
Can't quite remember the arguments of that thread anymore.
I use Sturmpios early game as a pure assault squad and to drop a med crate if I go Mechanized, and then they transition into a repair squad.
If you run forwards with a sweeper and deactivate when your in the enemy lines for more close range DPS, they can do minesweeping and fighting at the same time with a bit micro.
They're also mine layers.
That's like completely normal? OST Pioniere do the same stuff, but they're OSTs only source of sandbags. They also double as recon due to sight range. Royal Engineers are close range fighters, sweepers, mine layers and repair squad at the same time as well. They can't build sand bags but are the only snare that UKF has. Also they're the only possibility to build emplacements that UKF is/was build around.
I do understand that due to the price, OKW often has only one Sturmpionier, while other factions have two. That's why OKW get's a non-doc repair upgrade on Mechanized.
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1 cons did not have the same problem, they could not win at long range that's it 2 RE tanks trap give green cover
1. The Conscript example was obviously to make the point how a matchup can be balanced even if one squad has to close in.
2. You're right here, I forgot the tank trap. But that makes them still way less prevalent ingame, especially since the tank traps often don't fit to an object blocker, so you need to additionally barb wire them that your opponent can't use them against you. |
So volks equalling long range vs riflemen but weaker in mid and close range, makes it hard for riflemen???, man im really scratching my head with that one how the hell is the harder for riflemen
Yes volks have sand bags, you people seem to think volks stay stationary the whole game or something? volks are not always sitting behind green cover, especially in early when OKW has to go aggressive. Volks sitting behind green cover vs riflemen closing from long range is ofc an ideal engagement for volks which they have to win, if they couldn't even win that they would lose every encounter with riflemen
The problem is that the range at which the DPS curves diverge is too close. So if you encounter an enemy Volksgrenadier in some cover, you cannot fight on long range since Volks will be more cost efficient. So you need to close in which is very risky since loosing a model while closing in will likely mean the loss of the complete fight.
The early Gren/Con-balance had a similar thing - Cons had to close in. But Cons are dirt cheap to reinforce, and they could take a model loss and still trade efficiently on close range. Also they cost the same, so no one got a real map presence advantage. These were the most interesting matchups in the game.
But Riflemen are not cheap to reinforce, Volks have an extremly potent Sturmpioneer at their side to help in early game and until USF getsthe officer out, they lack behind in map presence.
I really don't get your second point. It makes no sense. You can spam sandbags while capping a point from early to late game. So your infantry is always close to green cover. USF has literally no non-doc options to create green cover. Of course open field encounters happen, still most fights and especially the important ones are fought from cover. Taking away sandbags from Volks would go a long way to bring them back to normal cost efficiency. |
but volks are equal at long range , okw start with -15 fuel and more expensive tech
Btw IS beats both green and volks when not in cover (at least when I tested them)
Btw they are cutting okw mp so no more 4 volks
And finally , inf fight don’t happen at 35 range , it’s very rare, generally the squad moving in will need to find equal cover and u will never find it at max range
Volks have sand bag for the same reason they have flame nade, strum have too many roles ( in my post history I made a thread trying to address this, by specializing them)
Yes, Volks are equal long range. That's what I said, and that's what makes it hard for Riflemen as I explained in an earlier post and quickly covered in the one you're quoting.
I also said that IS need a nerf.
Let's see what balance team will patch into the live game and how this will effect Volks performance and spammability.
And yes, engagements are not usually at exactly 35 range, but Rifle only gain a significant advantage in DPS below ~15 range. So if you need to cross 20 meters against Volks in cover (often sandbags), you're going to lose 1-2 models and a lot of health while probably killing none, which is going to lose you the fight. |
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