Thread: IR Ht4 Aug 2019, 21:56 PM
nobody is gonna buy a unit that to function u have to pay with pop cap, forward pay of 200 mp and 5 fuel and constant munition for worse soviet mortart flare
Popcap cost has the positive effect that the unit is harder to fit into the army build and therefore cancerous combination with artillery is minimized.
If people are willing to pay for it depends on the effectivity and play style, you really cannot deny it that generally.
I agree that a unit that costs resources should bring a constant bonus to your army. The half track costs a similar amount of resources as a normal mortar, so it must be more than just a "flare shooting machine". Smaller standard detection radius (minmap or ghost generation as it is now) and a flare ability could make it useful.
Also just nerfing the health pool would go a long way. This thing is attrociously stable. If the opponent reacts after the first shot, it usually gets out alive as it's just not worth diving your tank for a unit that costs 200 MP and 5 FU (you can even salvage the fuel back from the wreck of the old one if you can micro it). It would also enable counter play by artillery (maybe armor nerf necessary), then even the detection radius could be higher.
But at the moment if you park it behind a shot blocker it is safe there forever. |
To be honest I do agree with that, CoH should not become a tower defense were you hold out until a timer runs out where you can press an "I win" button.
Even making the KT cheaper and a bit worse would be okay with me. Just the cost/performance is a bit off at the moment |
Stug, I'm not sure what you're refering to. That KT buffs are impossible due to the community? Or something else?
Tiger and Pershing are quite well designed units, they do have an impact that forces both players to adapt their strategy around the heavy tank, allow for counter play and are potent when supported.
And they're both quite expensive.
I think the KT is a bit slow. At the moment is almost MUST win every fight, because retreat is not a real option. There once was a huge thread about the KT, I don't think we need to repeat all of the stuff here.
You can disagree with Codguy whenever you please and many of his other suggestions deserved the critique that they got, but here he started a decent discussion. He even agreed that the KT is a bit on the weak side, so at least here he's not as one sided as you make him. |
I can understand the point. OKW is also fine without the King Tiger powerwise, as we can see at the moment since nobody uses the unit. It would just be a shame since it would take options away from OKW that were originally intended to be a centerpoint of the faction.
I think the best solution is to make KT a decent unit again and then OKW should pay extra for the possibility to buy it.
Back teching to med HQ or mechanized is not really a sacrifice, as you gain option to medics and LeIg or repair guys and the Walking StuKa, respectively. That's all useful in the late game and rarely wasted resources in most modes, even in 1v1 |
should codguy be banned for spreading false stats, miss information, trolling, and spam ?
Let staff handle spam issues or pm them if you think you spotted misuse that flew under the radar. Misunformation is best combatted by stats and decent discussion culture...
so many nazi cyber warriors here
the faction is made in mind with the kt as a base unit, should we remove usf crews ? and lock it to some doc ?
... so what about both of you discuss to the topic?
As I said, I think taking King Tiger away from OKW and revamping the commanders would open Pandora's Box. There's also no reason why OKW should not get a heavy tank, and the K fits the theme of expensive elite units that OKW was initially about. We just should find a way to make it both viable and balanced again |
The only dev teams that handle their stuff adequately (as possible) from what I've noticed recently is only the Indie ones. So don't expect any triple A devs be on the same level of communication and listening as them.
They cannot hide behind corporate shenanigans and are directly accountable for their stuff, no Publisher bullshittery is possible there.
That's why I'm hoping that Iron Harvest will succeed and show Relic how a proper game is really done today but sadly seeing as they're also aiming for consoles and have chosen the Unity engine, I'm not so sure about it anymore.
The main reason in my eyes is that the 'games as a service' bullshit that is running wild in the industry at the momentonly works if you build up enough hype by either a big marketing machinery or using an already established IP. Indie developers don't have any of that. There are also scammers in the Indie community, but in the triple A business there's next to no decent developer left |
I hope that CoH2 does not turn free to play. The player base won't grow. There were already two free giveaways, so everybody that is at least partially interested probably has the game, and basically none of them stayed for long. A FTP won't bring in new players, just more cheaters.
Also I hope that CoH3 does not go down the route of the same business model as CoH2. This game's additions, be it commanders or new factions, were plain broken at release to make people buy them. And now, years later, balance team still has to fix units because of it. It's okay to pay money for real expansions, but then I want them to be implemented correctly and not damage basically the rest of the game. Otherwise I can't play the game I paid for for several months until relic patched it back into a somewhat balanced state.
I know the strategy market is not the most profitable anymore. I'm willing to pay a bit extra if I know that the dev team handles their stuff adequately, but I won't buy something that I lnow is going to be broken later down the line.
And also the supply system, where you can earn stuff for 'free', so you would not have to pay, is a bad joke and only there to give an illusion that you couls earn the game's whole content by just playing it.
If I see something like this implemented in AoE4 or CoH3, I'm not gonna buy it until I get the whole bundle 5 years later for 10 Euros. |
Also if the KT would become a normal commander slot, we'd have the problem to revamp all OKW commanders, which won't happen. The last big commander revamp aimed for two commanders per faction, although there are so many useless ones more. We can't redo all of OKWs commanders anymore. |
While none of you have to agree with him, you've got to hand him that first his threads, even if they are often biased, usually spark a big discussion that gets more or less constructive after the first wave of bullshittery and second, this topic is one of the most reasonable he has posted recently as well as he gives a decent argument. So maybe stop bullshitting people at spots where it's not really due.
The KT needs a buff to get it back to relevance. The question is if a faction should be able to buy a heavy tank sixth commander slot for approximately 50 fuel, and also that fuel investment gives you other boni and possibilities.
If the KT becomes a decent unit again, this question is very much valid. Honestly I'm not sure how to handle it, OKW has no heavy tank in almost any other doctrine due to the KT, but of course the free slot gives another goodie to OKW.
I'd say buff the KT to a normal level, then we'll see how much of a problem it really becomes. If it is a problem, I propose another side tech as a paywall to hide the KT behind it, so that the OKW player really has to pay without directly getting a benefit for what is basically a sixth commander slot. |
/Moved to CoH2 gameplay subforum |