Profile of porkloin

boring replay to win fourms arguements

I've never seen a CE spam build used by a high level player even as a joke. You would think this wouldn't be for any gentlemanly reasons as cheese strats have a habit of making their way onto youtube regardless of perceived fairness.

Why don't you try a CE spam strat then and show us a replay of it in action? Regardless of any minute 0 efficiency compared to conscripts by virtue of using the same weapon and having better RA, you should know CE receive no RA buffs with vet and only marginal accuracy and cooldown bonuses. By the time any enemy infantry gets vetted, much less light vehicles hit the field, CE would be basically hopeless; a build centered around them would fall apart almost instantly.

SPios are more or less the same way to an extreme; they have great DPS and even get an AT package. But in the end they scale worse than Volksgrens and bleed harder to boot.

I'm more than happy to play against you https://steamcommunity.com/id/porkloin

But you're just making impossible tasks aren't you...

There's no need. If CE spam was OP, we would had seen it in mass in either tournaments or high lvl games. Because, it's not like this didn't happen in the past with either Ro. Engis or RET.

You could argue that top players don't know or want to play like that, but i'll say we have enough Cpt Sprice type of players to replicate this kind of spam strats whenever they get out of hand.


Regarding the test, there are several issues.
Volk vs SP: not sure why u make them face 3 Volks vs 2 SP when the squad is 300mp and Volks 260mp) A closer comparison would be 2v2 and SP stomp Volks.

CE vs Con: no reason for either squad to push as they have the same weapon.
CE they are more expensive to reinforce (21 vs 20) and occupy more popcap (15 vs 14). 1 per squad and 1 per model.
170 * 3 = 510 vs 480 = 240 * 2

Anyway, who cares if CE can beat Conscripts, when you will never play Soviets vs soviets in automatch. Something you forgot about why CE is not a thing as well, is because any light vehicle rush will push you back to base.

PD: CE are completely fine. No other factions have Conscripts as their main line infantry.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Show me some high level games where CE spam gets stomped if you think it's non-viable. I'd argue the reason you don't see it that often is because 'that's not how you play the game' rather than ineffectiveness.

I'm not familiar with OKW and thought SP were a tad more expensive. Do you think sturm pios are more cost effective than volksgren?

I didn't push CE vs conscripts.

A 5% difference in reinforce cost and 7.5% difference in pop is kinda splitting hairs when CE have a 10% increase in RA.

I compared CE to conscripts because they're in the same army. There's a wide variation in mainlines, but they're generally agreed to be balanced against each other. If CE are on par with conscripts it follows they'll be on par with the other mainlines despite more varied stats.

3 CE will beat two of any mainline infantry except for charging rifleman in open cover, and max range infantry sections if you want to go down this road, but your interest seems to be muddying the waters rather than taking a critical look at things.

Playing around in cheat mod reveals:

4 gren squads will closely beat 5 charging pioneer squads
3 volksgren squads will easily beat two sturmpioneer sqauds

3 CE squads will easily beat two conscript squads. Averages to about 5-6 CE models remaining.

The only reason you build conscripts over CE is better veterancy bonuses, sandbags, slightly easier micro, and a very small manpower efficiency.

You can easily use CE as mainline infantry though if you so desire. Flamethrowers and mines more than compensate for worse combat veterancy, and once you get to t3 vehicles, which CE fix, are the primary fighting unit.

IMO the only reason CE haven't been nerfed already is because of a gentleman's agreement. Everyone knows unconsciously they're OP, but the game would lose all fun if you actually laid down the 40-50 mines per game soviets can afford.

Having played against CapitanSprice engie spam I'm gonna give this a hard no. Combat engineers are easily the most valuable infantry unit in the Soviet line-up if used well. They could probably be toned down some, but I think Soviets need a bigger munitions sink instead.