1) More people own ostheer than UKF
2) UKF are badly designed faction going from up to OP all the time.
It can be argued Ostheer are certainly not perfectly designed themselves.
Part of the issue with keeping USF and UKF balanced over the years has been how early ostheer can cheese a sniper and roll into 222 or flamer HT. This is why AEC and m20, and Soviet tier 1 have had major redesigns numerous times over the years trying to solve this issue.
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I spent about 30 minutes writing a reply in the "The TRUE reason behind OST" thread, but it was locked when I hit the "reply" button. However, it essentially came down to this:
OST is a really complicated faction to balance, since it has so many interconnected pieces, and relies much more heavily on combined arms than any other faction. It also has the most "complete" set of tools, so it doesn't have any obvious weaknesses like, for example, USF (no sniper) or UKF (no mobile mortar). Additionally, the vast majority of OST's units scale very far into late-game (grens, pgrens/Schrecks, Pak40), meaning that changes to mid-game units can drastically change late-game game play.
This means that buffing one unit can drastically change a completely different unit. The example I was going to give in the other thread was how buffing the 222 could indirectly make the MG42 much more powerful in the mid game, since a buffed 222 would better defend against snipers, flanking, and LVs. That would in turn make Grens more powerful, since close-combat units would have a harder time getting within range. This type of 'knock on' effect would likely be much less drastic if, for example, the USF Stuart was buffed - I would doubt there would be many threads about the .50-cal being too strong as a result.
Due to all of this, as Vipper said, the only easy solution is to nerf other factions to OST power level - i.e. a return of the "Ost Benchmark" concept. This isn't to say that buffing OST is impossible; it's just exceedingly challenging to do without creating incredibly gimmicky/boring metas (i.e. current Tiger meta, old "Panic Puma" meta, etc.).
I disagree about the powercreep angle, Ostheer have pretty much bullied UKF since release, early sniper into 222 was pretty much was an instant win for the first 6 months of Brit release. Only some doctrinal cheese gave Brits a fighting chance.
Look at the past tournaments and even when they have been weaker, Ost have always at least featured and were picked in the last rounds.
Ostheer are not some historical sickman ottoman empire of CoH2 some make them out to be, they have the most complete roster that gives you a lot of room for adapting to different metas.
Brits on the other hand...
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I think making the Ram a Skill shot would probably be the best solution if you don't want to touch the rocket strafe. However, the actual best solution would be to nerf the rocket strafe. Nerfing Ram because of Airborn cheese is like nerfing Grenadiers because G43s are too good.
I imagine coding that would be a lot more complicated than changing some damage values
Probably impossible even |
We'd never nerf or buff anything based on a single match. The Churchill Mk.VII was planned to become 19 popcap because spamming ~3 Churchills in teamgames (so with AT/TD support from teammates) was easy to execute and nearly unstoppable because of the immense HP pool and the lack of Axis non doctrinal units equipped to properly deal with it. It was changed to 18 initially as a precaution but then ultimately it was changed to 19 as originally planned. 19 popcap was supposed to keep an effective army composition (1 Churchill or 2 max, supported by a Firefly or ATGs) a viable strategy while discouraging full on Churchill spam.
That particular match only proved the point, but it wasn't the cause.
Did you guys not factor in 3vs3 and up players can field as many panthers or Churchill's as they like due to the absence of any infantry backbone that 1vs1 requires? Every game will have its autobot repair truck/station blob (true allies only get them doctrinally, but almost all sov and ukf 4s commanders has a repair ability) so you only need a token infantry force and can spam plenty of armor as you please.
This is a major reason why UKF remain competitive in 4vs4 but you have the likes of asha or Hans highlighting their popcap in 1s. The Churchill pop nerf hit in nowhere but 1vs1, and it hit the tank hard.
Surely a mp and slight fuel increase would have been the better fix for all game modes. |
FF pop is not inflated. Here is the Pop of other "heavy TDs"
Panther 18
M-36 16
Su-85 15
FF 16
Actually SU-85 should have it pop increased to 16.
(And KV-1 to at 16).
Now can we move back to OStheer 4?
Heavy TD would be ele or JT. You just listed 60range TDs plus the panther and forgot the Jagdpanzer which is 14pop.
USF have no issue with fielding multiple 16pop Jackson's due to crew abuse.
So the only faction that suffers here is Brits. Soviets can field a KV-1 and SU-85 for 29 compared to church and FF combo that is a inflated 35.
And people wonder why British lag behind even when they reach late game. Especially with so many bolstered squads eating into popcap.
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No limits then, just increase pop cap by 2 to discourage spam.
I mean, worked for churchills, no reason why it wouldn't work on panther.
Churchill should be same pop as panther or comet.
It needed a small price increase and that was it, nobody builds the FF church combo anymore because both their pop is inflated. |
Tbh the panther should have been a unit restricted to 1 a piece and treated accordingly instead of nerfed and rebalanced and nerfed and rebalanced year after year to account for the potential to make them like they are t34s in team games. Elite tanks shouldnt be making up the entirety of your tank force anymore than elite infantry should be all tou field as infantry and i hooe thats a lesson learned for coh 3. The core of each army should be their standard units not thier elite ones
But OKWs entire faction design is to be an elite army like the one fielded at the battle of the bulge, that's why you get stg engineers, obers that represent the waffen SS and a king tiger non doc. |
Firestorm - Will be meta
Spec Ops - Still useless
Overwatch - Niche. Way overnerfed.
Elie Armoured - Sturmtiger still immobile and bad shell collisions. Useful doc on occasion.
Breakthrough - Forever niche due to Jagdtiger useless in 1v1. Can be useful if you abuse officier.
Luftwaffe - Useful on occasion, but less so without Fallschrimjager fausts. Kind of meta.
Grand Offensive - I think we’ll stop seeing it once people realize the new Tiger isn’t good and the KT as stock is better.
Fortifications - Niche, but might see more use with the LeFH pop cap buff.
Scavenge - Way too weak.
Basically Firestorm and Luftwaffe will be meta.
You underestimate how strong fussies are, especially with the patch nerfing cons. I imagine grand ops will remain meta just with more diverse armor play. Maybe more KTs |
Superhansfanboi >>> NOSmarkov confirmed
15 muni extra per crate a hefty nerf? Roflmao
I’ve spent hundreds of hours watching football. I’m basically Cristiano but younger.
Practical experience? What’s that?
Actually there have been many top pro sports managers that never made it as a pro in their playing days and lacked any such "practical experience" at the top. Look at Jose Mourinho.
Just because somebody has slow ability, micro etc and can't make it at the top it doesn't mean they're not a mastermind in game knowledge.
This is what we call a checkmate |
Wow great counter argument, there is a thing on forums called discussion rather than personal attacks.
If you stick to the former and constructing a reasonable argument that's probably better
Thanks, but unlike him I provided one. |