I wouldnt say the su85 isnt effecient (panther could use a wee bit of love tho) but the pen on the su76 really makes the 85 unnecessary if one has already committed to the 76s.
Can it be made into a mobile bunker type deal? Munitions for an mg, reinforce or healing? Old kuble type MG, ambulance style healing or halftrack style reinforcment.
Amazing, both of you misread my post and added the sentence "shocks will damage the elephant".
I would call it a strawman if I didn't respect elchino.
The idea that the 222 is a threat to any competent su-76 user is as ludricous as shocks in a m3 hiding behind the elephant
And I find it hilarious how people defend the su-76 with such zeal while hating on the stug.
If the su76 is trying to not get shot up by your 222 its not barraging your pak. Additionally the main issue with the su76is when its blobbed, and unless the game was patched in the last few hours blobbed armour doesnt move effectively in the least. I dont expect you to solo a pack of su76 with a single 222, but you cam use it to disrupt them. Relative to cost the 222 is your t34. Its enough of a threat they need to account for it but cheap enough to lose if it means securing a kill. You can block with it, its gun is effective against them, especially their rear.
And i never said the su76 doesnt need nerfed (i agree with vipper that a pen reduction and tying barrage behind vet would be a good direction, maybe even tying the zis barrage behind vet too) simply arguing that its ridiculous to only look at the gun stats when comparing the stug and su76 and ignoring that the su76 is THE glass cannon incapable of bouncing anything heavier than a scout car and being unable to take many hits either.
Considering offensive performance (120dmg), cost and survivability (400HP) it should go with AEC/Puma levels of XP value.
There's a key factor on delaying the vet plus changing some stats on it that it would make it fine. At vet 2 it gains a +20dmg which could easily be placed at vet 3 while swapping it with increased barrage range. At 140dmg, it means 1 shot less to kill 400/560/640 HP pool vehicles (normally 4/5/6).
Summarizing:
-If we have heavier tanks (Panther) dealing 200dmg with a slower RoF it would give it a place against both this low HP pool vehicles and premium mediums.
-Decreasing far/pen in general so they remain relevant against mediums but not heavier armored vehicles.
-Giving it a proper xp value so it both gives xp and takes simil time to vet as other vehicles.
-Swapping vet 2 with vet 3 damage modifier.
To put it in perspective, the Jackson only has 10 less armour yet that is considered to have paper armor (enough for it to get a HP buff )
And as I said before , if the su76 is allowed to have 60 range, so should the stug
So 130 armour vs the piv's 110 pen at far for an 85% chance to pen at 40 vs 140 armour and the t34s 80 pen at far for a 57% chance to pen at 40. Its almost like armour is relative (kinda like how the su76 has HALF the armour of the stug, allowing it to be vulnerable to even a lowly 222)
You may not know this, but the elephant doesn't have a turret, so any unit (shocks in a m3) are free from damage behind it......
Try harder.
Except thats statistically untrue. A 222 will pen the rear armour of an su76 every time, shocks chance to pen an elefants rear are astronomically lower.
At any rate the point is that even a 222 is a threat to an su76 (or a brace of them) that the soviet player has to respond to. Should they turn to respond they will be unable to barrage your pak or send a volley off into your stug/p4/whatever else.
Dont bitch that such a cheap unit en masse can be effective when you COULD do the same with a cheaper unit still to counter them (yea its a bit more work, ill give yoy that but its a possible counter, or at least a reasonably cheap enough distraction)
STUG only has 140 (with 30% at vet 2) armour, against what guns is this high armour?
*Looks at all allied medium tanks*
To put into perspective- the stug has a chance to bounce a t34 at point blank, but the su76 will NOT bounce a t34 at max range (let alone a panzer 4)
Unless of youre you are going to complain that a 90 fuel t3 isnt durable enough when facing down full tech TDs that are all minimum 50% more expensive. In which case how many panther shells is the su76 going to bounce? Or pak43 shells? Or JP4 shells? HELL an su76 is only going to bounce 1 in 2 222 shells and the stug can bounce full blown tank shells at max range almost the same amount of times (80 pen at max for t34/140 armour) falling to 1/3 with vet. What the fuck do you expect? A jp4 clone?
The stug was much more durable, having more armour and more health. Less range for sure, but more forgiving against everything being able to bounce some shots and tank a whole shot more. Plus TWP in a stug pack meant nothing was safe. You can kill an su7y with a 222 however you would be hard pressed to kill a stug with a 30 fuel investment, even if hellen keller was controlling the stugs
Iirc an su76 has what we in the business call shit armour. A 222 is a threat and massed su76 are a stuka loiters wet wet dream. When the enemy might bring an army of tissue paper be sure to have access to a hose
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