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Gotta remeber that oat medkits come from a time where healing was actually impactful. Soviet had to return to base and ost had to either soft retreat (or full retreat) to a bunker or take the time to heal behind the front. Each of these resulted in giving up map control in favor of healing. The med kit ability isn't bad, and from a game design standpoint of decisions matter its great as well. Heals with minimal impact on economy or map control make the game more arcade and less strategic. Denying the enemy munitions points should be as impactful as denying the enemy fuel |
So you think 5 K98 Volks are a viable long-range infantry unit when they are facing Infantry Sections, Bar/30cal Riflemen and Sections? OK.
As for all the other points, this applies for all factions. Mainline infantry is supposed to be versatile and carry a faction, not sure what the problem is here?
Iirc stg volks have like 2 DPS more than Kars at long range so tbh not much in that regard would change. Side note, why the ever loving fuck SHOULD volks be viable against more expensive infantry using long range specialized weapons? They have obers and obers will eat both rifles and Tommie for breakfast. As they should. Because they cost more.
Other factions don't have a Sturm and overs in their stock line up.. M volks were never meant to be the be all end all for OKW infantry they were very much intended to utilize the various elite infantry squads they have both stock and doctrinal and volks were to make up the meat.
The idea is that the become versatile but not simply better at all ranges. If you NEED CQB you get the mp40s but it's not a no brainer click like stgs are. The added utility of smoke brings more to the upgrade as well. Hell I'd even keep the target size reduction mp40 volks get. It's changing them and opening more room for variety as well as raising the skill cap of the faction. Weapon upgrades should be targeted to specialization not a simple "we are just better now no matter how you try and fight us" there was an entire patch focused on that idea. Ost pios were OP as fuck. I was there. It's a very good design decision that should have been run with instead of the mess of an upgrade system WFA got. |
The reason I dont consider pios comparable in recon is due to how powerful their spotting actually is. While it no doubt can help an MG spot an incoming blob a little earlier, 42 range is insufficient to provide much beyond that. Compare it to the M3A1 with 50 base spotting range, vet 3 M5 with 45.5, su85 with 75 on focus sight, recon T70 with base 52.5, hell even tracking su76/su85/zis/isu is 49... that 42 sight range isnt looking so good beyond spotting for your mgs.
It's not that having 7 extra sight range is bad, far from it. But the application for it is more limited then it would appear at first glance.
Lastly regarding combat engineers, just compare them in terms of cost effectiveness to conscripts. At vet 0, combat engineers on a per model basis are actually stronger then conscripts as they have 9% lower recieved accuracy then cons while only costing 5% more to reinforce. In terms of recruiting, they are a mere 6% higher cost per model.
On a per model basis, a vet 3 combat engineer with no upgrades is the rough equivalent of a vet 2 con. Pretty good for a spammable cheap to replace engineer unit. Obviously the correct squad ratio is 3 CE vs 2 conscripts- 510mp vs 480mp.
The power of the spotting is tough to gauge but definitely a powerful boon. Late game when (not if) you lose team weapons that extra sight is just amazing. And late game when you are repairing and an enemy dives you get that little extra time to react. It's not a lot objectively but it's effect I would argue is cumulative. Its like any Intel bonus. It's impossible to tell exactly how much it helps because it helps even when you are not aware of it. Kinda like the old radio silence. How the hell do you tell if it made a difference or was a waste?
As for CE being a half decent fighter is fine imo simple due to the fact they don't really do anything else for you. I know names are names but they ARE called combat engineers. Previously both parts of the name was a joke, now just the ending. |
I would like to see some clean up in vehicle crits system. Especially with engine damage. Quite confusing, when you have two medium crits (one from mine and another one from snare) at the same time, or when you have medium and heavy crit at the same time.
P.S. Some UI adjustments will be good to have too, since immobilization, medium crit and heavy crit have very similar icons.
Was thinking about this the other day: what if snares were cumulative. Starting at the light engine and worked their way up if resnared at a new threshold. Change ram from a stun to a snare based on that threshold + say a gunner wounded or something. No snarling a full health heavy then, no stun, just disabling the gun for a time and engine damage based on damage already dealt. |
What if OST T4 building provides vet1 to all squads. Like what wermacht had in CoH1 as vet techs.
Coupled with that, pio vet1 could be changed to +10% dmg reduction. Med kids are not worth it.
Two birds w/ one stone. A worthy T4 buff+Pio late game presence
That's a tricky dog because then vet 2 is closer and vet 3 as well. Bought vet as a whole is not ideal. I'd sooner (personally) for t4 to give ost infantry a 10% damage reduction independent of vet, and might as well throw them skirts on their tanks as well. Replace vet 2 with something else (maybe + range for the stug?) this improves ost infantry when they need it most and makes t4 attractive even with a t3 build |
It would be better to give the smoke nades to Sturms instead of their stun nades.
Or rework the schreck upgrade to include support abilities like smoke nades or mark target to make it worth getting a second Sturm.
My proposal is for combined arms, I'd like to no e the flame nade to sturms and think flame and smoke and all their other shit would be too heavy of a work load on sturms. Volks imo should be more like the support for the number of more elite infantry that okw has the focus on firepower.
I am not sure if you noticed but Volksgrenadiers are the worst mainline infantry tied with Grenadiers at the moment. Please elaborate how Volksgrenadiers plug the holes when they are worse than any Allied mainline infantry.
How are you going to play OKW on open maps if you only have MP40 upgrade for your Volks? That's a completely crazy idea and I have no idea how anyone could come up with something like that.
Volks are yuur snare and your anti garrison and you main capping force and your budget assault unit and your meat shield and and and and and. Anything the okw lacked went to volks and it shows. They are basicly lite rifles which is a poor design on a faction with 2 sets of elite infantry stock and a number of high AI units doctrinally.
As for fighting on open maps. M. They have rifles you know right? Those are long range weapons. The idea is that you would chose to keep some of your volks as rifles instead of auto upgrading to the infinitely superior STG the second you can afford it. An auto buy upgrade is a badly designed one. If that doesn't tweak your nips in the right manner okw also has a very high long range DPS specialist in obers. And if that still isn't enough you have doctrinal fussies in 2 doctrines, JLI in 2 doctrines and falls in 1. Volks should be the answer to everything and yuur complaint highlights that they are....
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While the intent is nice, I dont agree with the execution. The problem is imo that Mp40 volks bully cons harder then STG volks. Mp40 volks have the close range dps to charge a squad of cons in cover and win convincingly. STG volks in the same scenario is a lot less one sided.
I think people often underestimate how powerful mp40 volks really are.
Edit: If you wanted to give volks MP40s in this manner, I would take a ppsh con approach and give them 2 or 3 mp40s at a reduced cost. I dont know about giving them smoke, we saw how bad it was with riflemen. If the mp40 upgrade was in any other doctrine, I think it would be borderline oppressive.
At least they would have to close though and there would be a range TO engage them but yea the con ppsh approach would be better.
Rifle smoke was a mess imo because rifles themselves were quite good. Top that off that the way ost was supposed to beat them was by suppression made things tricky that they could just say "nope". What's more, usf has smoke on nearly every unit in their core so displacing it from rifles pushed for useing other units where okw only has the leig. Not ha ING any smoke until as certain tier made it so okw was bullied hard by mgs and garrisons. I just want a bit more variation than volume of automatic fire wins the day and want a combined arms approach to making sturms more impactful in their small window |
CTRL-F "M4C": 2 results, both in your post. Conversation between Stug life and Applejack, and my own posts, were about the M4A3, the generalist medium tank of the USF faction.
Likewise, my stats were about the stock USF M4A3, the stock Ostheer PzIV, and the PzIV ausf J (because it incidentally shares the relevant stats with stock Ostheer PzIV at vet 2; both have 234 armor, both have the exact same penetration ratio).
I have no idea why you are bringing up the M4C. It is off topic to an off topic discussion on a thread that has wandered on and off topic already.
Huh.... Well fuck. Disregard me seems I've had too much. |
And I am referring to the Ostheer stock P4 at vet 0 in my post whenever I do not explicitly say otherwise...
Panzer IV penetration ratio is always superior to M4A3 Sherman, at all ranges.
M4c though, iirc has the same vet as the t34 which is designed for a poor gun. It ends up shooting quite fast and accurately and has radio net instead of cap.
Its a bit of a misfire comparing the M4c against the p4. While it is fighting the p4 its replacing the t34. It's effeciency doesn't care for the p4 but the t34 it's replacing as it shares the same economy.
Compare stock vehicles against one another for balance but doctrinal units should be compared against their stock counterparts in their own faction as that is who they need to be viable in comparison to. If it fills a niche in the fa tion it doesn't matter how it stacks up againt the opposition (as much) as its opening a new avenue for the faction its in. |
They're already not even close to being oppressive, you have to spend fuel for each squad you want to call-in
No one said flares are bad and no one said anything about tac assault. A sprint or smoke grenade would be nice. Something that actually goes with that squad
Due to the semi exclusive nature of the ass guards (HT fuel cost) I'd like to see them as LITE officer style units. Maybe vet 1 gives activated Aura like ost arty officer has? Something that if you lose the squad it makes you consider calling in another and something that makes the fuel cost call in possibly more than just a one time shock cavalry doc slot. |
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