How could the Italians possibly be OP when their armor development never advanced beyond 1942?
You underestimate Relic's power |
In your V4 changes OKW requires 200mp to unlock Medics, Panzerfausts, flame grenades, Volks weapon upgrades, indirect fire, machine guns, and AT guns (latter already included in T0).
It's 200mp AND 20 fuel, but still that seems WAY too cheap |
its let down by its speed where as perishing can get out of danger fast.
As I have already pointed out, Panther is faster than the Pershing and is stock for both axis factions. And it has blitz. The speed "advantage" really isn't that special
you seem to want the best of both worlds,
Are you blind? I literally said they can nerf the speed if necessary.
I'm aware of what the changes were, it should've just got the health buff. 800 health for a 230 fuel vehicle was absurd, it didn't need to lose armor in ezchange |
because both axis factions generally struggle more vs high armour/health units as they don't have access to high pen/60 range TD's.
The IS2 has 340 armor and 1040 health, so that's not a good reason. Yes the is2 is slower, but it's mobility is still plenty good enough for a heavy and that protection is much more reliable
I'm only asking to give back 300 armor on Pershing, with 960 health. If it needs a slight mobility nerf that's fine, but I don't think it would need to be much
Anybody remembering about pershing's main strength - ai performance. Might be useful to just remember about it, especially in comparison with panther.
The panther is it's counter. You should compare it to the other 230 fuel heavies, which are all good against infantry as well. And the pershing really isn't that much better than them at AI anymore |
The fact that the Pershing is inherently "fast" means its more able to traverse the map too, and when compared to other "heavies" its easier for it to be where it needs to be. Perhaps its value is overstated, but I don't think it's a negligible feature of the Pershing.
I don't think it's negligible either, I'm just saying it's not enough to justify the Pershing having lower health AND armor. One of the reasons it's not enough is because blitz is on a large number of axis tanks
The speed is very useful at making the Pershing contribute all over the map. But in big armor battles it gets scared off/killed too easily for it's price imo |
What Sky is probably saying is that the Panther can easily catch up with the Pershing even when you reacting late. And trading a Panther (+30 mun) for a Pershing is a good trade resource wise.
Yup. Pershing costs a good chunk more fuel and manpower, so that 30 muni isn't much by comparison, especially that late in the game
Panther will usually be on the field before a Pershing too, so having vet 1 already would not be so difficult |
I think more people need to realise this. Heavies were nerfed to become the final cornerstone to finish your army composition with a powerful and effective generalist unit, rather than a rush/stall unit that can carry the fight on their own
I don't think more people need to realize that at all. I feel like most of the forum was thrilled when the heavy stall meta was nerfed, so I really don't see how this could be the issue
It's specifically when you compare it to other similar priced heavies that it seems a bit lesser. I really think it should get 300 armor back. 960 health is still less than all the other heavies, so I don't see why it needs less in both of those categories
It's mobility is nice, but it's not worth that lesser protection when both panthers (and many other axis tanks) have a vet 1 speed boost. Imo it's mobility is very overrated specifically because of blitz
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That's my point. You don't get it because it slows the rush down. Plus you get it for free. If you purchased it you would have 7 man conscripts up to 4 minutes earlier then if you were just to wait for tier 4. But nobody does because it slows your actual power spike(t70/t-34).
Right well I have no problem with that idea if the reserves unlock fuel cost is removed. I think it should get the cooldown bonus back when t4 is built. I believe someone suggested this earlier, splitting up the bonuses and making some of them get added back when t4 is built
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That said, I think my point still stands. Currently if you are "rushing" for a T-34, or "rushing" for a T-70, the mobilize reserves HQ upgrade slows that rush down.
No because if you rush the t34 you don't buy the upgrade. You will get it for free when you get t4
By removing the fuel cost, you incentivize the player to build Tier 3 earlier then you normally would currently.
That makes more sense then, but I still think it should get the cooldown bonus back after t4 |
That's my point. People don't buy the HQ upgrade now. And even if the upgrade were MANDATORY, people still wouldn't get it until after the T70. If you remove the HQ upgrade, make the 7man upgrade available after tier 3 is built but nerf the potency, people will actually be inclined to build tier 3 earlier to gain access to the 7man upgrade earlier. If there is a fuel cost attached to it, people are still going to be getting the T70 FIRST.
Wait so you also want to remove the fuel cost of the mobilize reserves upgrade itself? You didn't say that before. I had mentioned that it should be cheaper but you didn't mention the cost other than the hq upgrades
Also, who gets molotovs before T70? lol The AT grenades are important I'll grant- if you don't get guards, m-42 or penals with ptrs. But neither AT grenades or molotovs require tier 3...
I'm talking mostly AT nades. I get Molly's before t3 on maps with lots of buildings though. And if you're going for early 7 man upgrade then you probably don't have penals or guards... Otherwise why would you be rushing for it?
I also play mostly 2v2, t70 is way less dominant in team games. I prefer to rush a t34 if it's not 1v1 |