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russian armor

T34 Ram

8 Oct 2019, 20:09 PM
#1
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1132 | Subs: 1

The T34/76 ram is an odd ability. In exchange for effectively removing your tank from the engagement and likely the battle, you get a die roll chance to stun the enemy tank, or deal some minor damage and get to roll again on a crit table.

This ability is far too RNG based currently. If you ram a Jagdtiger, theoretically you could get anything from a brief stun to a detrack (I believe, haven't used the ability in ages). I understand the ability is a last ditch ability, but I believe it should be changed to be closer to an extremely high risk snare.

-The Ram now guarantees an engine critical if the enemy tank is below 75% hp after the ram.
-The crit is always a regular engine critical, with a short stun as well.
-Ram still effectively deletes the T34 from the fight.
-Ram still has a pen value which deals damage equivalent to an AT round (160 damage) on a penetration.

This should make the ability less frustrating for all involved and a bit more predictable. I get that this is a very random change to happen that would not change the meta at any level, I just think it is an easy change that would bring an ability in line with other similar abilities, and possibly provide a reason to build T34/76s to support AT lines. The T34/76 does not really need a rework, so I do not think swapping this ability for something else is really necessary, just that there is no reason such an expensive "snare" does not guarantee an engine critical on the targeted tank when infantry snares do the same with much less investment.
8 Oct 2019, 20:18 PM
#2
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1473 | Subs: 3

I would call it a stupid ability. The game is based on maximum safety and maximum receiving vet, but here it is simply a suicide ability. Due to low armor penetration, the T-34 should be a tank for flank attacks - and here there is a discrepancy, lack of speed or the ability to increase speed. I personally would like to remove the "ram" and give the ability to "fire and maneuver" as vet - an increase in the speed of movement, rotation of the turret and there may be a little rate of fire.
8 Oct 2019, 20:23 PM
#3
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 733

I would give the T34/76 the vet 0 ability to switch to APCR shells for slower reload, less damage and more pen.
8 Oct 2019, 20:25 PM
#4
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2678

Make it a guaranteed main gun crit. :D
8 Oct 2019, 20:35 PM
#5
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 130

The Ram on the T34/85 is even more confusing as the 85 has even more value on the battlefield and less likely to be used for ramming. I would support a completely new ability for the T85

This is essentially a 300/90 snare ability that doesn't work half of the time. I'm totally for reworking it.

Also, this ability tend to have path finding issues as well. When it misses it shouldn't soft stun the T34.
8 Oct 2019, 20:56 PM
#6
avatar of Maret

Posts: 537

T3485 should have smoke. It have smoke chargers on rear.

While t3476 APCR shells coud have less range or very bad accuracy on long range (like it was in reality, all APCR shells used only at 400 meters or closer, their scatter were very big from 400 meters)- that make from them good flanking tools for close battles. Also it should be timed ability, like OKW HEAT shells, to reflect that these rounds were rare.
8 Oct 2019, 22:58 PM
#7
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3161 | Subs: 1

If you are using it in a time that it's not worth the trade you are using it wrong. I actually think it's well designed (mostly) you use it to buy time to kill a panther/tiger while another t34 flanks, or su85 pumps out that next shot.
Ive uses it many times to secure a kill in a situation where I already know my t34 isn't going to make it out, including a few times when it has missed a shot on a stuka with a panther up its ass and no time to reload. Worth it. It's not an every time ability, it's a when the risk is worth it ability, which is a bloody good design from a tactical/player option stand point. Guaranteed engine crit is cheesy and wouldn't really change the way its SUPPOSED to be used except people will more often opt to Reliably Throw away their tank vs weighing the options.
8 Oct 2019, 23:08 PM
#8
avatar of Grining Cat

Posts: 33

How many T34/76s does it take to ram King Tiger to death? :) (Holding fire enabled of course)
9 Oct 2019, 00:23 AM
#9
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

the T-34-76 ram... though has its uses isnt even half as useful as sherman smoke or OKW spearhead... even combat blitz despite being vet 1 locked is far more useful (and used) in games... it should definitely be buffed to consistently cause engine crit at 75% hp plus ministun... OR replaced with APCR for higher penetration...

the T-34-85 ram is absolutely useless... should be replaced with smoke or something more useful...
9 Oct 2019, 01:02 AM
#10
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 477

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Oct 2019, 20:25 PMLago
Make it a guaranteed main gun crit. :D

not forsure but a very high chance for gun crit. the ram is useless. make them both stun?maybe thatll be to much unless t76 just take like a shrek amount of dmg. i like the idea u guys were saying about making it always engine dmg like a atnade would when some hp is removed
9 Oct 2019, 01:05 AM
#11
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1279 | Subs: 2

A buff would be fun to see.
9 Oct 2019, 01:08 AM
#12
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3161 | Subs: 1

if its going to be changed it should be tailored to the class of unit not a flat thing.
ramming a kuble should be different than ramming an elefant should be different than ramming a stug.
we already have the means of refining it via target tables and pen values, so if its getting changed change it right.
9 Oct 2019, 01:48 AM
#13
avatar of cochosgo

Posts: 274

I would call it a stupid ability. The game is based on maximum safety and maximum receiving vet, but here it is simply a suicide ability. Due to low armor penetration, the T-34 should be a tank for flank attacks - and here there is a discrepancy, lack of speed or the ability to increase speed. I personally would like to remove the "ram" and give the ability to "fire and maneuver" as vet - an increase in the speed of movement, rotation of the turret and there may be a little rate of fire.


THIS
9 Oct 2019, 03:04 AM
#14
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4485

Ram is one of those things I'd like to see reworked, it's currently more damaging to the T-34 in all scenarios except for a few very niche:
  • A base inspection by an unsupported vehicle where you have at least one anti-tank platform that can clean up before the tank you rammed kills your T-34.
  • Your T-34 is one shot from death and you do not have time to pull back, so you go for a ram and hope the enemy tank misses or bounces the next shot before your suicide attack commences.

I haven't given a lot of thought as to what it should be, but punishing you by removing your movement, gun, and 25% of your health is way too harsh for a stun and engine damage on the other vehicle.
9 Oct 2019, 03:19 AM
#15
avatar of cochosgo

Posts: 274

Even worse, the T34 logic is to be as close as posible to penetrate the enemy, yet this ability requires it to be beyond a minimum range to be used
9 Oct 2019, 03:42 AM
#16
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 778 | Subs: 4


I vote they remove the ram ability and give the T34/76 Pz4J stats. Make T34/85 lose ram ability and gain Panther stats.

The game is moving more and more towards mirror stats.
While not go all the way?

Also give blitzkrieg to T34
9 Oct 2019, 15:44 PM
#17
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6262 | Subs: 1

My idea for ram:

-It no longer requires to have an enemy in LoS or to target it.
-Vehicle just goes forward at an increased speed (it can't steer) for a reduced amount of time.
-If it doesn't collide with a vehicle, it receives the same debuffs as of now (engine overdrive which results in momentary speed lost). If it collides with a support weapon or building, it stops with same debuff.

When it rams an enemy vehicle it checks for the following:
-Always proc the stun crit. Double the time the T34 is stunned.
-Removed main gun destroy small chance for the enemy vehicle.
-Engine damage/Heavy engine damage depends strictly on HP of enemy vehicle. If HP is >25% (same HP threshold to trigger main gun destroyed through normal dmg) after ram, it's a heavy engine dmg. If higher, it's engine dmg. If it penetrates.
-Same for the crits on the T34.
480HP >= (basically full health T76 or 1 hit T85), heavy engine damage, turret lock.
320HP >= Immobilize
>320HP Immobilize + Main gun destroy.
9 Oct 2019, 16:48 PM
#18
avatar of gunther09
Donator 22

Posts: 350

I love the ram, gave me so many lols already.
10 Oct 2019, 01:50 AM
#19
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1257

I love the ram, gave me so many lols already.


It would be nice if it was more predictable, but is a lot of fun when I'm feeling like playing throw-away. My favorite was in a match on Minsk Pocket when I flanked an Elefant, but got a main gun crit. Since I was going to lose it anyway, I rammed the Elefant and killed both of them. To me, that's what ram should be - a last ditch effort to take something out.

I have tried the ram plus AT strafe. The results seem just too variable. One day, I'll get multiple Tigers or Elefants, other days I'll just lose a bunch of T34's. Good players seem to be a lot better at avoiding the combo so it seems like something more for troll games than real ones.
rqd
10 Oct 2019, 02:26 AM
#20
avatar of rqd

Posts: 63

Keep the ram, since in 2v2 matches 2 soviets can't take down superheavys effienctly without t-34-76 ram & il-2 bombing combo. Su-85 can't chase retreating axis armor.
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