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Ostwind Overbuffed?

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21 Aug 2019, 15:36 PM
#1
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 142

Hey guys,

Hoping to discuss the new and improved ostwind since the last patch. The ostwind seems like a very good AI platform and has high shock value when hitting the field now. Don't have any problems with that; where I think the issue lies is its performance vs armor and dedicated AT platforms.

I've been playing more LT. tier with USF lately making use of the beastly .50cal and the stuart. The stuart is a good AT platform so I build one to match up against the ostwind. I eventually end up battling the ostwind in a great 1v1 scenario, no other infantry or ATGs are around, just stuart and ostwind. The ostwind ends up 1v1ing my stuart pretty handily with around 1/4 health left and this even accounts for me vision blocking the ostwind for sometime with the stuart ability. Both vet 0 vehicles btw.

I know RNG is a factor and this is a sample size of 1 but the stuart should be able to atleast dislodge an ostwind right? I wasn't even able to push it off, it handled the stuart quite comfortably. Is this working as intended or is the ostwind over-performing vs armor/AT platforms.

Yours truly,
Your favorite USF main
21 Aug 2019, 15:51 PM
#2
avatar of miragefla
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1231 | Subs: 12

Don’t engage the Ostwind in a stand off duel with LVs. Force it to move since it has poor accuracy when mobile.

Ostwind’s primary role is to kill infantry, but it’s other roles are anti-air and anti-light.

Also, Stuarts and AEC are not meant to take down the Ostwind alone, they need support as the Ostwind still has tank health at 640 with somewhat alright armour and arrives later than they do.
21 Aug 2019, 15:55 PM
#3
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 676

I think the Ostwind DPS is so high it overshadows whatever penetration values it currently has. Having good enough armor to deflect many Light vehicle weapons it is quite efficient at beating them.

This is relatively fair because it costs more to tech to than other units like the t70 stuart.

However I will say with 2 Ostwinds I would expect to handily beat a t34 in a prolonged battle, that seems a bit much considering the ostwind is worlds better vs infantry than the t34(if you ignore crushing :megusta: )

I think Reducing FAR penetration would allow the ostwind to still be effective vs vehicles, but also give more space for light vehicles to play. Aside from that it should still have good impact vs these units, and would benefit both players microing well and avoiding snares.

As far as tactics, I think you need super bazookas to fight it off with USF if you cannot get a sherman out in time with LT tier
21 Aug 2019, 15:57 PM
#4
avatar of BiggusDickus

Posts: 11

So... you're surprised the Ostwind beats the Stuart 1v1? It's 30 fuel more and as previously stated it's balanced to beat light vehicles with enough penetration to damage them consistently along with more armor and hp. Besides, Ostwind won 1v1 before the patch too so it's definitely not a question of overbuff.
21 Aug 2019, 16:07 PM
#5
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 142

Ok, so I guess I had some misconceptions about the unit to begin with. Yes the stuart is a light vehicle but I think most agree it's a premium light with the 70 fuel cost and the fact its build on a tank chassis which comes with solid armor. I just thought it would perform better than it did against ostwind. I tried to screen my stuart with infantry but they don't last very long next to the ostwind lol. I guess zooked up rangers would be the best.

I don't know, maybe if ostwind got a bit of a health nerf it would feel more balanced. As it is, it's extremely hard to dislodge and its DPS is obviously more than enough to 1v1 anything that isnt a medium. Maybe other factions have easier matchups against it than USF. I just hate I need to roll out a sherman to reliably kill it. Even two atgs can get kited or outright killed by an ostwind before its dead.

Open to any l2p suggestions as well.
21 Aug 2019, 16:13 PM
#6
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 907

The Stuart could use a buff, but it should never be able to take on a Ostwind with any reliability
21 Aug 2019, 16:15 PM
#7
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 676

Ok, so I guess I had some misconceptions about the unit to begin with. Yes the stuart is a light vehicle but I think most agree it's a premium light with the 70 fuel cost and the fact its build on a tank chassis which comes with solid armor. I just thought it would perform better than it did against ostwind. I tried to screen my stuart with infantry but they don't last very long next to the ostwind lol. I guess zooked up rangers would be the best.

I don't know, maybe if ostwind got a bit of a health nerf it would feel more balanced. As it is, it's extremely hard to dislodge and its DPS is obviously more than enough to 1v1 anything that isnt a medium. Maybe other factions have easier matchups against it than USF. I just hate I need to roll out a sherman to reliably kill it. Even two atgs can get kited or outright killed by an ostwind before its dead.

Open to any l2p suggestions as well.


on L2P getting an M10 for 80 fuel would be the cheapest vehicular counter to the ostwind. That was how you countered STUGE when it was quite strong vs USF.

Even before the buff ostwind one of the most versitile units in the game though simply because of how many units it can be effective against. (everything that's not a tank, and even then it does work vs most mediums if used well), and it's good mobility.

At the same time, ostheer risks not having any AT vs something like a Centaur, T3485, IS2, Kv2, Ez8, M4c unless you then go to rely on a quick stugG follow up. Ostwind's can significantly delay a lategame composition if it doesn't have impact.
21 Aug 2019, 16:29 PM
#8
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 780 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Aug 2019, 15:55 PMHon3ynuts
However I will say with 2 Ostwinds I would expect to handily beat a t34 in a prolonged battle, that seems a bit much considering the ostwind is worlds better vs infantry than the t34(if you ignore crushing :megusta: )


They don't.

I hope you're not referencing this thread: https://www.coh2.org/topic/92117/ostwind-s-penetrations, where insane RNG was backing up two Ostwinds in a fight against a T34, because it has been debunked:

21 Aug 2019, 16:49 PM
#9
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 676

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Aug 2019, 16:29 PMDerbyHat


They don't.

I hope you're not referencing this thread: https://www.coh2.org/topic/92117/ostwind-s-penetrations, where insane RNG was backing up two Ostwinds in a fight against a T34, because it has been debunked:



Mabye it influenced me :luvDerp:

But in practice I find that playing defensively with an ostwind, it will do enough damage to ensure an effective panzerfaust upon aggressive t34 play, ensuring your vehicle is relatively safe from destruction when it takes ~20 seconds to kill an ostwind with 4 penetrating shots at 40 range.

Playing aggressively you have a high chance of penetration 55/75 or ~70% from the rear, if the t34 is weakened or has engine damage, 2 ostwinds rushing it will give the t34 limited chance to escape. Even trading 1 ostwind for a t34 is fine, since you are already in the lead having produced 2.

That thread shows a chance for winning in an absolute worst case scenario for the ostwinds. I think in a live situation, they create a stronger composition with their larger impact vs infantry, and the opportunity for big plays due to their manuverability, armor, hp, dps ect. This is what i mean by prolonged engagement.
21 Aug 2019, 17:20 PM
#10
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 123

My Luchs was destroyed by a Centaur. How can this be? I demand it be nerfed, it has too much health for a Luchs to kill.
21 Aug 2019, 17:26 PM
#11
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 780 | Subs: 1



Mabye it influenced me :luvDerp:

But in practice I find that playing defensively with an ostwind, it will do enough damage to ensure an effective panzerfaust upon aggressive t34 play, ensuring your vehicle is relatively safe from destruction when it takes ~20 seconds to kill an ostwind with 4 penetrating shots at 40 range.

Playing aggressively you have a high chance of penetration 55/75 or ~70% from the rear, if the t34 is weakened or has engine damage, 2 ostwinds rushing it will give the t34 limited chance to escape. Even trading 1 ostwind for a t34 is fine, since you are already in the lead having produced 2.

That thread shows a chance for winning in an absolute worst case scenario for the ostwinds. I think in a live situation, they create a stronger composition with their larger impact vs infantry, and the opportunity for big plays due to their manuverability, armor, hp, dps ect. This is what i mean by prolonged engagement.


I don't know man, going 2 Ostwinds if you expect a T34 from your opponent is not a good idea in my book. It's far better to get a P4/Stug after an initial Ostwind, unless you like giving your opponent a chance to comeback because your tanks can barely scratch his tank.

A T34 rushing your double Ostwinds (if unsupported) can take one of them out without too much danger to itself, it would be suicidal for a T70 to do the same against the dreaded 444. This is partly because the Ostwind has shit accuracy when chasing vehicles, so won't pose too much of a threat to a T34 that's backing off.
21 Aug 2019, 18:01 PM
#12
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3003

I think a large problem of the ostwind v stuart matchup is the majority of the investment of the stuart is returned in its armor value. The armor value is phenominal vs lights, but means exactly nothing vs anything larger. And by lights, I mean everything but the puma. With an armor value so high the main cannon is forced to be rather mediocre. I think if we traded armor for main cannon damage similar to the AEC it would scale better. Although I'm sure the asymertric balance community would be unhappy.

As for the ostwind, honestly I think it is like in need of a 3-5% nerf. It may be awful on the move, but so is the centaur. The difference between the 2 is the centaur moves at the pace of a KT and the ostwind doesn't. I also think the ostwind is just a hair better than the centaur because it uses an AoE damage profile vs the centaurs accuracy profile. So just a tad nerf to the ostwind IMO.
21 Aug 2019, 18:08 PM
#13
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 5674 | Subs: 1

... It may be awful on the move, but so is the centaur. The difference between the 2 is the centaur moves at the pace of a KT and the ostwind doesn't.

That information is incorrect:
Accuracy Centaur is:
Accuracy near 0.675 Accuracy mid 0.618 Accuracy far 0.56

so centaur will always hit vehicles on the move while ostwind not only will not score hits it will also not score collision hits.
21 Aug 2019, 18:10 PM
#14
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3003

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Aug 2019, 18:08 PMVipper

That information is incorrect:
Accuracy Centaur is:
Accuracy near 0.675 Accuracy mid 0.618 Accuracy far 0.56

so centaur will always hit vehicles on the move while ostwind not only will not score hits it will also not score collision hits.


I'm talking about vs infantry. Who uses a centaur vs anything larger than a puma :/
21 Aug 2019, 18:34 PM
#15
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 5674 | Subs: 1



I'm talking about vs infantry. Who uses a centaur vs anything larger than a puma :/

So far people including OP where talking about ostwind vs vehicles in which cases Ostwind is rather bad when moving.
Centaur on the other hand can hit and penetrate vehicles up to light tanks.
21 Aug 2019, 18:50 PM
#16
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3574

try puma vs centaur, if last 5 second u are lucky :snfPeter:

btw ostwind and centaur have same AI performance sander tested it in the other "please nerf ostwind !!11!! RRREEEEEEEEEE!!!111!11!" THREAD
21 Aug 2019, 18:54 PM
#17
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 676

try puma vs centaur, if last 5 second u are lucky :snfPeter:

btw ostwind and centaur have same AI performance sander tested it in the other "please nerf ostwind !!11!! RRREEEEEEEEEE!!!111!11!" THREAD


Ostwind seems stronger until you get vet 1 Delete ability on Centaur :hansGASM: But both relatively balanced. I think the centaur will beat the ostwind 1v1 b/c of its good armor, but i've not seen that fight to completion
21 Aug 2019, 18:59 PM
#18
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3574



Ostwind seems stronger until you get vet 1 Delete ability on Centaur :hansGASM: But both relatively balanced. I think the centaur will beat the ostwind 1v1 b/c of its good armor, but i've not seen that fight to completion
yes it will beat ostwind 100% ostwind has 110 armor :romeoHype:
centaur has 160
21 Aug 2019, 19:04 PM
#19
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1298

try puma vs centaur, if last 5 second u are lucky :snfPeter:

btw ostwind and centaur have same AI performance sander tested it in the other "please nerf ostwind !!11!! RRREEEEEEEEEE!!!111!11!" THREAD


Everyone already knows they're the same when standing still. As Shadow said one of them is much faster than the other, so it's easier to handle

Can you also try not to accuse everyone you disagree with of crying for nerfs? All I see is someone starting a discussion
21 Aug 2019, 19:11 PM
#20
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3574



Everyone already knows they're the same when standing still. As Shadow said one of them is much faster than the other, so it's easier to handle

Can you also try not to accuse everyone you disagree with of crying for nerfs? All I see is someone starting a discussion
and the other has much better armor and better moving accuracy
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