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Maxim redesign redirect thread

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18 Aug 2019, 17:59 PM
#1
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3258 | Subs: 1

Starting this thread to give those that want to talk about a maxim rebalance a spot that isn't the new patch thread so that discussion of the patch in that thread won't be drowned out.

So to throw my hat in the ring for a change o would propose to separate the assault MG portion and the support/Supression MG portion of the MG into sperate modes. How to do it is debatable however

So as a primary, there would be a dps mode, like the old maxim it would be mobile enough to keep up with infantry and provide decent dps in its arc.

The other mode would be a low damage but improved Supression, at least that of the mg34 but would drastically reduce mobility by increasing set up time to an average of that of all other MGs at 300mp?), maybe a bit longer (at 280mp?)
Swapping between these modes while set up would have a reload with the corresponding set up time

If not going with the "shell swap" approach we could try the old defensive stance approach where when out of combat it can deploy into a suppressive mode, no addition set up time required, just preemptively setting up in a defensive position. With the amount of soviet flares I don't think this would be too much of an issue.

A third option would be the old Kuble approach, where after setting up for a bit it will begin to apply Supression. This would mean it can still be used defensively, but not as attack move Supression as the enemy would have time to move out of the arc before it starts suppressing although gives less control to the player

A fourth option would be making suppressive fire not require vet so that the maxim always has the capacity to stop infantry, even if freshly recrewed (like all other MGs can, even those that cost less)
18 Aug 2019, 18:07 PM
#2
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

I like the shell swap idea... that ways the maxim truly becomes an assault MG (DPS dealer) with the option to swap to a defense MG with slightly improved suppression


Plus it means conscripts having a bad start can be migitated by the firepower of the new assault maxim...
18 Aug 2019, 18:51 PM
#3
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4002

more supression

more set up time

it was spammed before cause it was possible to a move it, with more set up time it would be impossible, and it would work like an actual mg (set up and hold)
18 Aug 2019, 19:02 PM
#4
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3258 | Subs: 1

more supression

more set up time

it was spammed before cause it was possible to a move it, with more set up time it would be impossible, and it would work like an actual mg (set up and hold)

I'm not a huge fan of that approach simply because it sucks all tee uniquess from the MG and still ledves t2 without any teeth. No means at all to deal damage keeps t2 as dead as it is now. Imo.
18 Aug 2019, 19:27 PM
#5
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4002

it's still unique with 6 men and fast tear down

and its seem like u want it to be an mg but not just an mg it must be better right ?

what's wrong if it's like other mgs
18 Aug 2019, 19:53 PM
#6
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

Well the problem is conscripts... they do jack shit worth of damage hence are mostly just damage sponges for the enemy to shoot at... penals fix this by doing terrifying amounts of damage...

of course t2 doesnt get penals... soo it has no way of effectively dealing damage... changing the maxim to have 2 modes... a dps oriented low setup time and no suppression assault mg and a suppression oriented high setup time low dps defense MG would fix the 2 issues of sov T2

Namely the lack of damage dealing tools... and the lack of suppression
18 Aug 2019, 19:58 PM
#7
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3258 | Subs: 1

it's still unique with 6 men and fast tear down

and its seem like u want it to be an mg but not just an mg it must be better right ?

what's wrong if it's like other mgs

Its got more weight on it than other MGs. Other MGs are placed such that they can support their t0 units but Soviet have no t0 units worth a damn in that regard. The maxim has an odd design where it's supposed to attack and defend. The issue imo lies in the direction oh having it do both at the same time. If it's defensive exclusively you can hold ground, but have nothing to take it. It's its offensive primarily then you have no means to stop massed infantry and if it's like it is in live then you have the worst of both in that you need to rely on Conscripts as damage dealers but it also can't stop shit walking straight at it with Supression.

The maxim isn't like other MGs and I think the error in its balancing has been treating it like it IS like the other MGs. It's something else entirely. It needs to fill the same role, but also another.
18 Aug 2019, 20:18 PM
#8
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4002


Its got more weight on it than other MGs. Other MGs are placed such that they can support their t0 units but Soviet have no t0 units worth a damn in that regard. The maxim has an odd design where it's supposed to attack and defend. The issue imo lies in the direction oh having it do both at the same time. If it's defensive exclusively you can hold ground, but have nothing to take it. It's its offensive primarily then you have no means to stop massed infantry and if it's like it is in live then you have the worst of both in that you need to rely on Conscripts as damage dealers but it also can't stop shit walking straight at it with Supression.

The maxim isn't like other MGs and I think the error in its balancing has been treating it like it IS like the other MGs. It's something else entirely. It needs to fill the same role, but also another.
so it need to be both an mg and a main line inf like it was before :romeoHairDay:
18 Aug 2019, 20:29 PM
#9
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

Not both roles at the same time though... which the old maxim did... but have the ability to switch roles when need be...
18 Aug 2019, 20:36 PM
#10
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4002

again.... it... would... lead... to ... spam.....
18 Aug 2019, 20:42 PM
#11
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

What difference is it to volks spam penal spam rifle spam and tommy spam when it literally does no suppression in the "assault" mode

Plus it can still be deathlooped... and u would be vulnerable to light vehicle play
18 Aug 2019, 20:44 PM
#12
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4002

are u for real ?

what if volks penal IS had suppressing fire like obers ?

do i need to explain more ?
18 Aug 2019, 20:47 PM
#13
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

Did u read the proposal? Its a switched firing mode... and if it were up to me id make it unsetup to switch firing mode to resetup to the "defense" mode with a long setup time....

That ways u cant switch modes on a whim and have to plan your defense ahead


To balance defense mode just give it a 5 second long setup time and give it decent (mg34) suppression... this way u cant "cheese" defense mode and the maxim still retains its offensive "assault" role with no suppression...

That ways cons are needed to screen maxims... and maxims are needed to deal damage for cons
18 Aug 2019, 20:49 PM
#14
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4002

so u flank the maxim and 1 click of a button u now lose the flank ?
18 Aug 2019, 20:51 PM
#15
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

so u flank the maxim and 1 click of a button u now lose the flank ?


U flank a maxim... and it takes 5 seconds to switch to defense mode.... which makes it dead
18 Aug 2019, 20:57 PM
#16
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4002

ok let's say situation 1, normal mg is repositioning itself somewhere else, i flank it with squad caught it moving,

with normal mg im rewarded for my strat, with the supposed reworked maxim i will not , do u think this is fair ?
18 Aug 2019, 21:01 PM
#17
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

If the maxim is in assault mode it will do no suppression... u can pretty much flank it easily if its unsupported

If the maxim is in defense mode and isnt set up... it would take 5 seconds for it to set up pretty much leading to a dead maxim
18 Aug 2019, 21:11 PM
#18
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1499 | Subs: 3

I already spoke about this - I completely disagree, an increase in the price of Maxim will require a decrease in the price of the Draftee, which, like an avalanche, will touch on other issues: issues of Osttruppen productivity to price, T1 balance.
No, just make the Conscripts competitive with the other infantry and not come up with absurd 7-person roles. Conscripts must support something, Maxim must support something. But these two crippled cannot do anything together. Make the Conscripts a good infantry and Maxim will support something.
18 Aug 2019, 22:05 PM
#19
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1554

ok let's say situation 1, normal mg is repositioning itself somewhere else, i flank it with squad caught it moving,

with normal mg im rewarded for my strat, with the supposed reworked maxim i will not , do u think this is fair ?


How are you at all reading that from their posts? The "switch time" he suggests is longer than the the time it takes for the current maxim to re-position...

Also at 300mp I dont think it will be spammed. Yes Penals are spammed but you can transition them to AT if you have to. Maxims cant so I dont think people will be spamming a 300mp mg, even after these buffs

That said I dont think the maxim necessarily needs to be good at killing. They also reduced tier 2 cost to 10 fuel so getting both t1 and t2 is more viable
18 Aug 2019, 22:14 PM
#20
avatar of someonewithideas

Posts: 27



How are you at all reading that from their posts? The "switch time" he suggests is longer than the the time it takes for the current maxim to re-position...

Also at 300mp I dont think it will be spammed. Yes Penals are spammed but you can transition them to AT if you have to. Maxims cant so I dont think people will be spamming a 300mp mg, even after these buffs

That said I dont think the maxim necessarily needs to be good at killing. They also reduced tier 2 cost to 10 fuel so getting both t1 and t2 is more viable


He doesn't. He always reads something and takes it to the extreme, it's kind of his thing.

The issue is OKW is really good at blobbing and can even receive less suppression. MGs are meant to suppress. There's no point in having one unless it can do that.
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